7mo Angel turned to Demon: few additional questions on NW and feeding

[Natalia Rus]

Hello everyone!

i'm new here but have read many treads before asking:) anyway there is no search through so please excuse if i ask already answered questions...

my daughter is 8 months now and till 7 months she was a real angel/textbook: almost no problems with sleeping in her own bed, feeding etc. she even slept 7-8 hours at night without any feeding almost from birth. and she almost never slept with my breast in her mouth.

when she was 5,5 she began NW few times a night and i read in BW about 4-hours periods and so changed her regime and she began sleeping well.

but then she turned 7 months, learned to stand and sit and began crying as soon as i take her to her bed, climbing up, standing, crawling around the bed and falling asleep only after an hour of crying and me holding her down... and also she began NW around 5 a.m. after i df her around 1-2 a.m. (BT is around 9-11 p.m.)

during the day i bf her 4 times with 4hr periods, five solids 2-3 times a day between bfs, then do df in about 4hr after the last evening bf. and when i df her and then when she NWs at 5-6 a.m. she eats well, both boobs (i usually give both).

1. has she just got a habit of eating at 5 a.m.? but she eats normally...

2. or does she need more food?

3. should i try PUPD first (at 5 a.m.)? but if she hunger cries - i give her bf - won't it be inconsistency then?

i've read in one tread here that 4hr periods are too long for bf-babies even when they get solids in addition.

4. should i go back to 3-3,5 hr? did the 4hr regime suit her when she was not so active (at 5mo) and now she just needs more food?

5. also somewhere here i've found a post where was said that df should be after around 2hr after sleep began (i have it after 4-5hr) - did i get it right?

also i've read about stopping night feeds at 9mo with adding less formula and more water to the night bottle.
 
6. how can i adopt this to bf? just feed less time? with one boob? (one supplies about twice more milk than another)

also we started PU/PD few days ago to set back the regime and independency... but she is teething and that hurts her some nights so badly that nothing can calm her except for bf.

6. should i ignore the restriction of getting baby asleep on the boob during such periods?

thank you very much in advance!

[becj86]

Hi, welcome to BW.

I suspect your routine might need a change - she probably need more time awake and fewer naps now. Can you please write out a typical day in EAS format, eg.
7 - WU, BF
8 - solids
9 - nap (doesn't fall asleep til 10)
10:45 WU, BF
etc.

Once the routine suits her better, then if there are issues that remain, we can look at what needs changing. Often if the routine is sorted, the rest all falls into place and nothing else needs to be done

[Natalia Rus]

she doesn't have solid routine now as it broke when she turned 7mo with the teeth and standing... now it looks like:
8/9 - WU, BF
10/11 - solids (porridge, ~100ml) or nap if the night was not good
11/12 - nap
12-30/13 - BF
14-30 - solids (veg/fruits)
15 - nap
16/16-30/17 - BF
18-19 - solids/BF
20-21 - setting to sleep, falling asleep till 10
1/2 a.m. - df
5/6 - NW (if teeth are calm)

so the routine much depends on when she falls asleep in the night and when she wakes up... and she's transiting from 3 to 2 naps, so...

[becj86]

I'd probably try bringing solids earlier by about an hour - so its about 1hr from when she has a BF - that may help if she's struggling with naps due to digestion issues (very common at this age as they're getting used to feeling their guts working).

I'd definitely stop doing an earlier nap if the night is not good. Keep the nap 3hr from WU regardless of how the night went and that will encourage her to sleep better at night.

Try to aim for a night of 11-12hr duration - so if she's up at 8am, she should be asleep for the night between 8 and 9pm. The DF is best 2-3hr after BT so you're not disrupting deep sleep - she'll eat better and should sleep longer thereafter.

It is absolutely normal to have that NW at 5-6am for a feed still at this age, I'd just feed and put her back down and treat the whole thing as a NW.

If she is hungry at night (more than DF and one NF), I'd consider cutting solids back and making sure she's getting enough milk - it has more calories than anything else you're likely to feed a baby.

Whilst she is teething, just do what you have to do to get through - if she's been an independent sleeper before, she can become one again. When baby is hurting, they can't rationalise that it will stop so they just need you to be there to comfort them.

[Natalia Rus]

thank you VERY much! i already try to make BT around 9, but don't succeed every day:)
will definitely try your suggestions.

I'd probably try bringing solids earlier by about an hour - so its about 1hr from when she has a BF - that may help if she's struggling with naps due to digestion issues (very common at this age as they're getting used to feeling their guts working).

but she's not going to be enough hungry then?

I'd definitely stop doing an earlier nap if the night is not good. Keep the nap 3hr from WU regardless of how the night went and that will encourage her to sleep better at night.

so even if she's very tired and wants to sleep after 2 hr after WU i should keep her from sleeping untill 3 hr?
shouldn't she be too OT and sleep badly? or she'll got used to it in a few days?

RE solids.
here in Russia (and as WHO suggests i think) we usually feed like this:
solids 2-3 times a day and then bf/bottle RIGHT after solids.
but i really think it's not enough if i feed her by regime so that she gets not enough milk that way... so i stick to BW regime with dividing bf and solids in time...

[Natalia Rus]

It is absolutely normal to have that NW at 5-6am for a feed still at this age

yes, but sometimes she wakes up at 5-6 to eat after df at 2! so in 3-4 hr...

[becj86]

but she's not going to be enough hungry then?

She doesn't need a lot of volume of solids at this age - its really for tasting and introducing solids, supplementing iron intake a bit. BF is still the most complete food you're going to get for your baby at this age. Remember you're transitioning from milk to solids by around 12 months where milk becomes more supplemental where solids is supplementing her intake at the moment. Breastmilk also digests very quickly, so she will eat after an hour - not saying you have to, just suggesting to try it You might find the more milk and less solids you give during the day, the less she will wake for milk at night.

so even if she's very tired and wants to sleep after 2 hr after WU i should keep her from sleeping untill 3 hr?shouldn't she be too OT and sleep badly? or she'll got used to it in a few days?

Often the cause of ongoing bad nights is a first nap that is too early - baby has a bad night and tacks the first nap onto the night, leaving it more difficult to get her to go to sleep at BT and waking happy in the early hours of the morning.

RE solids.here in Russia (and as WHO suggests i think) we usually feed like this:solids 2-3 times a day and then bf/bottle RIGHT after solids. but i really think it's not enough if i feed her by regime so that she gets not enough milk that way... so i stick to BW regime with dividing bf and solids in time...
Just had a read of WHO recommendations (http://www.who.int/features/qa/21/en/) - you're right in part - WHO says 2-3 solids meals per day, starting 2-3 tablespoons per meal increasing to ~100ml by end of 8 months but with frequent breastfeeds (not bottle/BF straight after). 
                  
                        

Quote from: becj86 on Today at 05:29:04It is absolutely normal to have that NW at 5-6am for a feed still at this ageyes, but sometimes she wakes up at 5-6 to eat after df at 2! so in 3-4 hr...

She's already by then done a long stretch without food - from BT feed to DF at 2am, yk? The idea of the DF is to shift the long stretch without feeding to a time when you're asleep, so if BT is 7pm and you go to bed at 10, you do a DF just before 10 and baby then sleeps a long stretch while you're sleeping rather than waking at 11 and wanting to be fed when you've been asleep an hour. It should be within 2-3hr of BT so as not to disturb the deeper sleep cycle. It might be that she would only wake once for food without the DF but you won't know without trying.

[Natalia Rus]

becj86, thank you very much!
will try and post the results if any:)

[becj86]

Hope it is helpful

[Natalia Rus]

Today she again ate at 2 a.m. and then waked at 6 to eat... Don't think she was really hungry though...

[becj86]

If she's not hungry, keeping that first A time long regardless of how the night was should help get rid of that NW.