Where to start? - UPDATED - the 9:30 Scream

[EllenS]

There are so many things going on here, I think it must be a routine issue, or a developmental issue.

My LO slept through the night (9-10 hours) pretty consistently since she was about 3months old.  We were on a 4-hour EASY for about a month between 4.5mos - almost 6mos.  Even on vacation, she was napping pretty well and sleeping at least 9 hours without waking to feed (we have never done a df)

We got back from vacation a couple of weeks before she turned 6 months, and she has not slept more than a 5 hour stretch since, and she rarely naps more than 1.25 hours, is waking early, and hungry all the time.  I can't get those naps to stretch and we're always on the edge of OT.  Sometimes she takes 3 naps, all between 1 - 1.25 hours.  Other times she will take her "catnap" in the AM and make her other 2 naps longer.  We used to average 4-4.5 hours day sleep, now we are lucky to get between 3-4, and it makes her cranky.

The first couple of days, I thought she was messed up from traveling, but it's been 3 weeks now!  I thought growth spurt, then time to start solids.  I dropped back to a mixed 3/3.5hour feeding schedule and this is day 5 of cereal.  I'm also pumping and taking fenugreek to boost supply.  Any advice from the routine perspective would be helpful!

Times are approximate, of course
Wake 6:15
E  6:45
A  7:15
S  8:30 - 9:30
E  10:15
A 10:45
S (put down 11:30 happy talk till 12) 12:00-1:20
E 1:45
A 2:15
S 3:45 - 4:30 or 4:45
E 4:45
A Bedtime routine
E last feeding 6 or 6:15
S 6:45-7:00

in the "good old days" she would sleep till around 4 am, eat and back down till between 6-7 am, which worked better for us than doing a dream feed.  For the last 3 weeks, she's been waking to feed in the "dream feed zone", between 10-12, then again between 2-4, with early wakings between 5-6.

I'm trying to get more calories in the day, but how long will it take for that to start correcting the nights?  I'm afraid we may have already crossed the line into habit.

Recommendations welcome!

[vadensmommy]

I am afraid I don't have any good suggestions as my dd is a week younger than yours   Aren't they precious, but so totally frustrating at the same time sometimes??

My guess is that it is a growth spurt that has come along on the heels of this messed up routine from vacation.  That is the way it always happens with us - go out of town and can't get back on track because of a growth spurt/illness/milestone, etc.  Have you tried feeding her twice during her A time?  So EAEAS?  I am having a bit of the same problems right now with dd - but only after noon.  Very strange.  She could care less about bottle/solids in the AM, but as soon as that clock hits PM she is ravenous and can barely stick to a 3hr EASY.  And it is hard to get solids and an extra feeding into the mix - she's either too full from her formula or too hungry to get the solids in fast enough to not make her mad!!  So what do you do?  Maybe we'll both get some better advice on tanking them up.  Good luck and let me know if you find some solutions that work for you!!

[EllenS]

I tried feeding twice in the A time, but it was too soon, she was not interested.  Maybe I'll try that again.

Please, anybody, keep the suggestions coming!

[EllenS]

Okay, so here's a new twist: for the past 3-4 days she's been having a screaming session at 9:30, almost exactly to the minute.  Variations in bedtime (+- 15 to 30 minutes) do not shift it.  She starts screaming in her sleep, then either wakes herself with the noise or is woken by me coming to see what the matter is (not sure which).  We do PUPD, soothing in crib, nothing seems to help much, and 20 minutes later she falls back asleep - bang - like a switch, sometimes in mid-shriek.  Creepy.

The regular time and 20-minute interval make me think it's related to sleep cycle, but how do I fix it?  This is not a happy thing.

[vadensmommy]

Ok creepy, I think our daughters have been talking.  My lo has been doing some night screaming as well, but is totally asleep.  She doesn't do it quite as long as yours does (more like just a few minutes or less) but still long and loud enough to really give me a start!  The only thing that I have even loosely related it to is feeding solids too late in the day.  At the height of the screaming periods she was only getting rice cereal, and had been for over a month.  She hasn't done it as much in the last week or so, but still totally weird!  In the beginning she would scream longer if we went in and intervened, so I quit going in, and let her go a few minutes (up to like 3 or 4) and many times she quit all on her own.  But now I've been going in because she isn't quitting on her own.  All it takes from me or DH is going in and patting her for a second, or sometimes picking up, and then just putting back down once, and it is over.  Strange.  I wonder what causes that. 

[EllenS]

Vaden's mom: I was just reading the Nap Faq's, and I think part of the problem may be that she's ready to drop the catnap - she has refused it for 2 days now, and I think she's been working up to it for a while, as she's been doing 45 minute/1hour  naps

Night before last I would have gotten 8 hours sleep out of her, if the thunderstorm had not woken her up, but she did go 8/5-9h before her first night feed.  I did this by thawing a bottle of EBM and topping her off 1-2 oz at every feed (5-6 extra ounces total in the day).  Unfortunately, that was our last bit of EBM, so I am trying to pump after feeds and give her some top-offs (I assume the pumping will also make more hindmilk for her).  Last night she made it to 11:45 (6 hours from last feeding) with 2-3 extra oz in the day, so I guess it's getting better.

I also ran across another mom who had just been through this - she said the adjustment took about a month total, and she described how she phased out the extra night feed.  I'll find the link and post it here for you.

Oh, and our 9;30 screaming may be related to the cereal, but it may also have been related to the household noise - I noticed that DH and i are usually making a transition close to that time - he eats dinner, I get ready for bed. Could be all the rustling/rattling.  Last night we were both in bed super early (DH is sick), and there was no screaming spell.

[EllenS]

Here is the link to that description of phasing out the extra night feed after the big 6-month spurt:

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=98762.msg969452#msg969452

4th post down, by DBJ

[vadensmommy]

I am glad that the top ups seem to be helping your lo.  Our routine is so all over the place many days that I have a hard time squeezing in a top up.  In the last week dd has been much more hungry and has needed something like 5, 7oz bottles not including the DF which is about 3-4oz on an average night.  I think she needs more solids, but it is really hard to get them into her - it's either too soon after eating, or so close to the next bottle that she's so hungry she doesn't want to waste time on the solids - they don't get her full fast enough and she just gets mad.  She hasn't start to wake at night yet - the extra ounces must be enough to keep her from NW, but I sure don't want it to start either.  She hasn't done the screaming the past few nights, but she too is trying to drop the catnap.  She went from 1:30pm till 5:45pm awake today - I tried from 4-5 to get her to catnap, but I think the real problem today was hunger.  I just knew she was going to puke because she kept drinking and drinking - and this was AFTER I'd given her solids.  Well I need to hush because I can go on and on.  I've started a new post on the solids forum, but haven't gone to read it yet!!  Maybe I'll get some better routine ideas there   Hope you're getting along well with dropping the nap and the night feeds!  There are just so many changes at this age isn't there??!!