Mobility and sleep don't mix

[samijoe]

Okay wow...that's alot of info.  Hopefully i don't mess you all up!  LOL 

Niki~ from what i understand, you seem to be doing well.  Please jump in if you arent still....?

Deb~ your little man is having a difficult time...as are you.  I know how hard it can be when all of a sudden your lo is NOT doing what they once did at all!

GIRLS----10/11 mths is ROTTEN FOR SLEEP.  Did that completely discourage you now??  I don't mean to, however i would like you all to understand that you are not alone and we have all been there.  Your lo are beginning to transition to one nap....still a long way from having only 1nap, but things are starting to move in the nap department.  This, paired with milestones makes things terrible--- everything is WAY too exciting for your lo's to sleep...why sleep?  The world is so cool.

Deb~ your man is waking early and not going back to sleep cuz he is ot.  Plus, he is still sleeping 12hrs or so....that is a long night.  You are very correct to put him to bed early if you have bad naps....but if that bedtime is 530ish...expecting him to sleep longer in the am might be a bit much.  But we can fix this...with the right routine.  I'm gonna take a stab at it---since we don't know what his true A time is at the moment, im going to work with something that gets increasingly longer during the day.

Maybe,

5/530 wake....don't try to resettle.  If you know he isn't hungry, dirty...and he is NOT crying, leave him be.  Same goes for sitting or standing--if he is doing this, leave him.  Make sure he knows how to get down on his own during A time practice.  If lo starts crying a true I NEED U MOM cry, go, reassure and leave.  Leave him in his bed to rest until you can tell he wants out.  *This will help with his OT from short napping.  After a few days of proper naps, this EWaking should start to disappear.  If you are honest and try this routine, then tell me what happens exactly....we should be able to get wakeup time to 7am (it can happen, he is NOT an early riser)

7 up and at em.

GIVE 3hrs A time.  If up at 5am and did not go back to sleep, try 8am.  If 530, then 830.

750/820 winddown for nap 1
8/830-930/10  wake from nap 1 at 1.5hrs

then try 3.25hrs A time.

1235/105 winddown nap 2
1245/115- 245/315  wake at 2hrs

then aim for in bed by 3.25hrs and asleep for 3.5hrs after nap

545/615 winddown for bed
6/630 ASLEEP


next day should have a wake up of 6am or 630am.  Then you might want to aim for this:

6/630 wake
3hrs A time
9/930-1030/11 nap 1 (1.5hrs)
3.25hrs A time
145/215-345/415 nap 2 (2hrs)
3.25hrs A time, 3.5hrs at most
7/730 ASLEEP....meaning have in crib to winddown 5/10minutes prior to bedtime.  Leave the room and let them settle on their own.

This day might have a wakeup time of 630/7.


I hope this info will help.  I have some errands this am...but will be around all afternoon.  Please let me know if you have more questions.


sami

[October]

Sami,
Thx ! I'll start tmrw and see how I go. May need to do some w2s to make sure of the 1.5/2hr naps in those routines but I'll keep out of his room unless he really needs me from now on.

He's just taken 10 mins. to go down just shy of the 3.5hr mark w/o any help from me and no real bad crying either !

Phew. Off to prepare dinner. Would love a pm nap myself.......   

[samijoe]

hmmm im thinking don't do any w2s.

i don't think you need it.

part of him sleeping longer for those naps is getting him down at the correct time.  3.5hrs might be too much for him....but we'll see.  if you get a good long nap today from 3.5hrs, let me know.

good luck with the rest of day.

sami

[October]

Thx again Sami. You're a trooper !
BTW, not in Edmonton are you ? My aunt emigrated there with my 2 cousins, err, now let me think, maybe 35 yrs ago (from England) ! The family is spread all over now and I'm due a visit again soon. Adored the Rockies.

Lucky you. 

I did just do w2s as my LO was all scrunched up squashing one leg and I want to turn things around. Will review doing any more tomorrow    He's at 45 mins. ....and  counting....so far !

[samijoe]

awesome.  good job deb and ds.


nope not edmonton....just outside calgary (south of edmonton).


hope the rest of today is good to you.



sami

[October]

Sami,

So far we had 1hr 20 am and 1 hr pm naps yesterday. Bedtime was 6.30pm at the 3.5hr mark.
He woke today at 5.45am (groan) and wasn't happy going down at the 3hr mark. He took 30 mins. to settle and just woke at the 30 min. mark !

Was thinking of trying 3.25hrs in the first A time and 3.5hrs for the next two.
Do you think this will work better ? Maybe he's not as O/T as he at first seemed albeit he only slept 30 mins. just now. I did try the short A time ! He was srcunched over his feet fallen from sitting so he could have woken from being uncomfortable.........     

[samijoe]

Hi

Well those naps aren't as ideally long as they should be...but they seem a heck of alot better!

He is still sleeping 11.25hrs at night...so trying 3.25 might work fine.  You are more than welcome to try.  You obviously don't want to change things up too dramatically on him, as all of this may take a few days to take.  His nights really are doing well though.

Let me know what happens with his second nap today....

Has he always been a short napper??

We'll see how it all pans out for you today, then we can revise things for tomorrow.


good luck
sami

[October]

Sami,
Bubba did 2 hrs this pm after his 30 min. am nap. Phew ! DH is feeding him and we hope to have him down soon after 7pm...

Nope, he was a good napper before. We got past 45 min. naps pretty well and he's always done an aver. daytime sleep for his age.

We'll see what his awake time is tmrw. I think I'll try 3.25/3.5 hr A times tmrw though.

Thx for your ongoing support !     

[maisy]

yay for the 2 hour nap    great news

x x x x

[October]

BUT, we still only had a 5.50am waking today. Even 6.15am would be a luxury....

[samijoe]

I know the early waking sucks....however hang in there.

I did mention it might take a few days for things to change.....


good luck today!


sami

[October]

Sami,

Today's naps were interesting !
Nap 1 9.04-10.14am (I did go in at the 15 min mark to move him as he was flopped over his legs and I know he would have woken)
Nap 2 2.12-2.37pm - he took 35 mins. to settle and was very upset.

I think he needs a short am nap still and a longer pm to do best at night. He never has a long pm nap if his am nap is over 1 hr........

Bedtime is now pushed back to 6pm latest. Feel like we're not making the kind of progress we should. Those A times must be off.

Deb 

[samijoe]

k, what has happened is....

it doesn't seem to be that if he wakes after an hour from am nap, he has a crappy pm one.  It seems more like you haven't properly adapted his A times to reflect how long he slept for. 

On the day that he did 30mins and 2hrs, what times did his naps end up falling at??  You still had an early waking, so at some point in his day he became too tired....most likely, he went to bed too late.

If you don't end up with an ideal am nap...meaning it isn't as long as you would like him to sleep, you have to shorten the A time that follows.  If it takes him 35mins to settle for his pm nap and he isn't happy while doing it, you've attempted too late.

So today maybe should have looked like,
904-1014 nap 1 (1hr 10min)
1pm in crib windding down
115/130 asleep
315/330 wake
630 in crib....asleep by 7


You are completely correct in that...most lo's do best with a short am nap, followed by a longer pm nap.  Having a good pm nap, seems to set them up for a successful night.  Having one that is too short (in comparison to am nap) can cause this early waking too.

The best piece of advice i could give you is to actually take him up to sleep a tad earlier than you would expect.  This transition in sleep is tricky...and sometimes is only successful when we give them the chance to sleep earlier, as opposed to later.

Also, i don't remember exactly....but why are you going in to move him around??  How is he crunched over exactly?   By 10.5mths, this could actually be disrupting his sleep alot.  And i would think that by 10.5mths, he can move himself in and out of positions on his own.  I stopped fussing with my dd by 6.5mths i think.....she could roll about and change position on her own.  If he is falling asleep sitting up, then perhaps move him to a laying down position.  But i really wouldn't bother touching him at all---but that's just me!

hth
sami

[October]

Sami,
TBH, this whole standing up saga has thrown my confidence. I used to know v. well what his A times were before this started !!

OK, so yesterday he woke at 5.45am, napped 30 mins. 9.10-9.40am and then 2 hrs 1.30-3.30pm. Bedtime (asleep time) was 7.07pm and he went down with the least fuss in ages. I thought yesterday was a perfect day...

I move him only when he is fallen from sitting, i.e. slumped over his legs and I honestly think he'll wake at 30 mins. or thereabouts from the discomfort. It extended what I thought would be a short nap otherwise. I also had to wake him at 1 hr 10 so we could get to the only class we now go to !

Should I make bedtime 5.30pm based on his awful 25 min. pm nap today ? I was going to.

Deb 
 

[samijoe]

I would.  Early to bed saves lots of bad days.

I have to run for a sec, let me think on your last post.



sami