How does WI/WO work?

[zed]

I am wondering what does WI/WO look like when done correctly.  I have been reading all sorts of things and now I am confused.

I have a 14.5 month old he usually goes to sleep very well at nap and at bed time.  He does wake once or twice in the night.  I can't quite pin down the why.  I have a few theories. 

1. SA, he has been bad since about 4 months.  We have had a bad case of it today.
2.  night frights, when he wakes, it is often a shriek of terror and sometimes when I go in he doesn't even seem like he is awake. 
3 teething.  but he seems completely fine during the day. 
4.  gauss or bloating.  he usually has a very hard tummy when I go to him.  could this be b/c he is crying so hard??

So, I am wondering how WI/WO works and is it right for my LO. He is a text book/ spirited child.  He does seem to cry more than my first did who is angle/textbook

Here is his routine

7-7:30     wake
8            Breakfast
10           snack
12           lunch
12:30      nap till 2:30
3:30        snack
5            dinner
6:40        bedtime snack
6:50        bed time
7 - 7:05   sleeping.


Anyone have any thoughts or advice??

[Jaime]

i only have a moment, but there is a link about wi/wo here that might help you make a decision:

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0

[Layla]

Wi/wo - if the baby is crying you go to him, reassure him & leave the room. Start counting (depending on your baby's temperament you can count to 5 or 10 or 15). If at the end of your count he is still crying you go back & reassure him... leave again & start your count. If at the end of your count he is no longer crying you don't go in. If he starts crying again you start your count & if he's crying at the end of your count you go back to him to reassure him & leave, etc....

SA - does he seem really really clingy during the day? The best thing to do if its SA is to give him lots of cuddles & kisses during the day. You could also try a longer windown before bedtime.

Night frights - could be! When is he waking... if its night terrors they usually occur during stage 4 (deep sleep)... so the 1st 3 hrs or so from the time he goes to bed.

Teething - well during the day it could be that he is too disctracted to feel the pain... any lumps in his mouth? Have you tried some meds for teething pain?

Gass/bloating - try & limit gassy foods for dinner. Is he constipated at all? Does he drink water during the day?

[zed]

Thank you both for replying.

Isabella&Jasmine's mum, thank you for explaining the counting part.  That is what I hadn't got from all of the reading I had done.

As for SA, yes, he is very clingy.  Yes, I hold him so much that I feel like I need to have him surgically removed.  But he does go to sleep at bed and nap independently.

The night frights, I 'm not sure about that one.  I was going by his intense scream.

Teeting, yes, I have tried meds and they do seem to work a little.  There are bumps on his gums everywhere and there has been for over six months with nothing much happening.

The gas, well, I think I may have found the problem.  Last night I gave him some oval drops, and he did way better.  He woke early at 5:30 b/c he was cold.  Then slept till 6:45.

I gave him the oval drops again tonight and I'll see what happens.  I will be trying WI/Wo in the future if I need to.  I like the concept.

Thank you both jaime-jaina&luke & Isabella&Jasmine's mum again.

[elmarie]

Hi mum 2 poo bear

What worked for us was a modified version of wi/wo.  The counting 5,10sec was too stimulating for my DD. My dd is an angel/textbook baby.  I would walk out and wait for 1min (time on my clock).  If she still cries (not mantra) I would go in after 1 minute, do PD and walk out even if she gets up or is still crying.   I will start  timing the minute again.  If she stops crying for even a sec I will start the minute over again (because most of the time it was a mantra cry).  I find the most wi/pd/wo that I have to do is 3 times (no more than 5min).  But as Layla said you must take your babies temperament into consideration when doing it.  I must honestly say, I find this method the most successful to extend a nap or get her back to sleep with a NW(my lo was sleep trained).  I was very sceptical when it was suggested by posting on the BW, but once I tried it I was amazed at the results. IT WORKS!!!

Elmarie XX

[zed]

Thank you Elmarie, you read my mind.  I was all prepared to do WI/WO but I didn't seem to need to.  I was planning on waiting a minute between each entry b/c my DS is 14 months and I think any sooner would make things worse.  I wasn't sure though if I was to leave if he was still crying, or if I was to wait until he was calm.  Thank you for clearing that up for me.

Last night I gave my LO the drops for gas but nothing for teeth.  At 11:30 he woke up.  He had a hard tummy and thrashing around, even when I tried to sooth him.  So I gave him another dose of the drops.  He went to sleep fitfully but woke again at 12:15. This time I gave him Advil for teeth since he had a I hurt cry.  I put him down and walked straight out.  He moaned for about 5 min then he was out for the rest of the night.  I think it was the drugs that was working that got him back to sleep.

Thank you all again,

[elmarie]

Poor baby.....I would suggest that you don't use any sleep training methods when your lo is sick, even Tracy mentions it in BW.   I don't believe that you leave a distressed baby alone.  Once he is better start immediately otherwise you will start a cycle of AP.

Good luck...keep us posted

Elmarie X

[Lu_C]

Goodness me, this seems to be the answer! My LO is spirited/textbook (textbook in personality but not in hitting milestones). He's always been great with sleeping until about a week ago when something happened (we have a long list of possibilities but not entirely sure which it was,) I think we may have a trust issue coupled with teeth coming through long used (thus toughened) gums. I was fairly all over the place when tantrums and screaming started and tried (please forgive my utter stupidity) controlled crying. What an idiot - all it did was panic him more and leave me in more of a dither. I'd skimmed over WI/WO and not really taken any notice. Two counts against me, I know! As soon as I saw a sentence explaining what to do, I gave it a go, without investigating further (he's been awake 7 hours already today and somethign had to work... I can already see it working! I mean, he's not asleep but at least I'm able to leave the room and he's able to calm down a bit after.
If anyone has any more pointers or help I'd be grateful of the support. Does anyone happen to know where the line is with spirited toddlers between boredom tantrums and over-stimulated ones!? Ought to pop that on another boardm but thought it may be work an ask here!

Thank you for paraphrasing WI/WO, enabling me to get something useful started today and at least giving him the chance to sleep (let's hope!)

Lucy and a very grateful Leo (and 7-month old embryo who's sick of listening to her older brother scream and have him kick her!)

[Lu_C]

I have another question. I know it's first day trying this and all, but how long should you carry on with WI/WO? Until the end of the expected nap time? Until they have fallen asleep? It's been nearly 2 hours now and, although he's tiring, I'm not convinced he's going to sleep today! Any suggestions?

[elmarie]

Lucy, yes as I understand it you do it for the duration of what would have been the nap.  Night time you carry on until he falls asleep.  This method as I understand it (maybe 1 of the moderators can confirm) works best if you baby is sleep trained-if he was sleeping through he probably was ? In the beginning it does seem as if it is never going to work, but it will-just keep at it.  Give it at least a week before you will start to see any progress.  If he has SA issues-what worked for us was first to do PD until he can settle relatively easy.  (this took me 2 weeks).  Then I started with GW, moving slowly towards the door (took me another nearly 2 weeks).  Only when you at the door with lo being calm you start wi/wo (which then only took 3 nights to work).  As you see you need to be patient when sleeptraining... 

[Lu_C]

ELMARIE...you legend. I'm the sort of person who goes off at something with half a plan and figure the rest of it will fall into place along the way (it usually does!) but Leo probably has to deal with the brunt of this! I started off with WI/WO with no long-term plan other than to stick with it until it worked. DH did GW with him last night, which worked after 40 minutes and him having to start from the beginning a couple of times. I bull-headedly carried on with WI/WO this morning (think I may have managed in  the end with GW as well actually). Just did GW after 30 mins of trying WI/WO again and he's sleeping...how long for nobody knows...an hour would be a dream!

Thanks for slowing me down!!

Lucy (and Leo *snore!)

[elmarie]

You need to have a plan and both you and DH has to stick to the same plan.  Poor baby.... he will get confused if you do a different thing to daddy  .  It is also import to do the same at naps as you do at bedtime and during the night.  CONSISTENCY is very important for sleep training to work...

[zed]

Elmarie, Thank you so much, you have done a marvelous job of explaing this technique.  I'm still very confused as to why my LO is having problems.  It seems like a different reason each night. 

Last night he wanted me to be in the room with him so he could play (between 1:15 and 1:30).  The thing of it is that he was happy for 5-10 minutes to be on his own, (just enough time for me to start to fall asleep), then he'd start to cry out for me.  at 1:15 I got fed up and just told him to go to sleep, then again at 1:25 I did it again, and then he did.  I was getting really mad by then.

The two previous nights he slept right through and I was starting to think making sure he had no milk after 2pm was working.  I am wondering if he is slightly lactose intolerant.  But, now I don't know anything at all again.  I think I will continue to keep milk in the morning and see what happens in the next week or two. 

I think WI/WO will work quite quickly for me since I have never stayed in room with my LO any longer than necessary.  I plan to keep at it.

[elmarie]

  Mum 2 poo bear,I think you must not stay in the room with him.  When he wakes up at night, immediately start doing the wi/wo, it really worked for us.  I am at the stage where I only have to go in once with naps and NW(which hardly ever happens), they quickly get the message if you are consistence....keep us posted

[zed]

Ok, I now have a question.  It seems that I will only need this 1 time per week.  The last 2 sunday nights have been really rough.  I did WI/ for 2.5 hours in the end I realized that my LO couldn't sleep b/c he was thirsty after all of that crying.  I have him 3 oz of water then he fell asleep.  Should I not have done this?? Would it be better to just have a bottle in his crib for him to find??

I hope this starts to work soon