10.5 Mo Old - Night Waking and Mega Accidental Parenting (?!)

[paella]

Hello everyone,
I have been reading through many of the messages and trying to filter out an answer to my dilemma...although there are so many messages to look through I fear it may be easier (for me) to just post. 

My daughter will be 11 months on Oct 1 and we have been trying to follow the Baby Whisperer EASY routine and other advice as it worked like a charm for our 4 year old!  However, I've gone desperately wrong with the night-time wakings and am not sure how to get back on track.

Here is some info to start off with:

Daily Routine

7:30 - Wake and Solid Food Breakfast (Cereal and Fruit or Toast)
8:00 - Activity (involves the car - taking sister to 'school')
8:30 - Bottle (6 oz formula) and Playtime @ Home
9:30 - Nap (1.5 Hours)
11:00 - Wake and Solid Food Lunch (Pasta or Meat and Potatoe/Rice)
11:30 - Activity Time (songs, games, toys, etc)
12:30/1:00 - Nap (2 Hours)
3:00 - Wake and Bottle (6oz formula)
3:30 - Activity (car ride to pick up sister)
4:00 - Activity Time (usually chasing sister around the house)
5:30 - Dinner Solid Foods (Pasta or Meat & Potatoe/Rice or Soup, etc)
6:00 - Playtime during dinner cleanup
6:30 - Bath (not always every day - on 'no-bath-days' she continues to play quietly with her sister)
7:00 - Bedtime routine (close blinds, change diaper, have a bottle (6oz formula), read stories)
7:30 - Lights out - and falls asleep usually right away

Now, this is where my dilemma comes in - she consistently wakes up sometime between 10:00 and 11:00 and we've been feeding her - we were doing a 'dream feed' when she was smaller, but I don't know if we should be continuing this - and if not, how do we stop??

The second issue is she also consistently wakes up around 3 or 4 AM expecting a bottle because that's what we've taught her to expect...we always have given her one - and it has to stop because frankly, I'm exhausted and she doesn't need it (right?). 

Last night we fed her as usual at 10:30PM and then she woke up at 3:30AM.  I did the pick up/put down technique - although I didn't pick her up fully into my arms, I more or less removed her hands from the side of the crib and laid her flat with her lovie (she has two toys she sucks and chews the heck out of!).  Of course, she was confused and hated what I was doing - I counted putting her down about 43 times in an hour and a half.  Thankfully I had earplugs in because the crying was almost unbearable.

Now, do I stay in the room doing the PU/PD the entire time until she's sleeping?  At what point do I leave?  I failed miserably last night because after 1.5 hours of the PU/PD and her making the "i'm falling asleep sounds" that she tends to make (accompanied with lovie sucking), I caved and ended up feeding her.  I *KNOW* that I wasted the 1.5 hours of the PU/PD by doing that, I just didn't know how long to continue - forever?  She has far more stamina then I gave her credit for, that's for sure.

She is teething.  Two up top and two down low are fully in - and two more on the way in the bottom.  I have been using oragel to soothe her gums because she gets quite cranky with it.  I have not noticed her waking any more or less with or without the teething - so I'm don't believe that it is playing much of a role in this situation. 

She also is increasing her mobility.  She's been crawling for three months and standing and walking along the furniture for almost two months.  She's tried to stand on her own and walk but isn't there quite yet.

So - I guess, after that long long story, my questions breakdown to this:

1.  When do I stop dream feeds - and given that she's 11 months old and VERY used to them - HOW do I stop?
2.  How do I stop the 3AM wake ups?
3.  If the answer to any of the above involved the PU/PD - is there a limit on how long to continue that in a single time?  (ie: the 1.5 hours we endured last night?) - or do I just go until she gives in and falls asleep?

THANK YOU for any replies you can offer.

Leslie in Canada

[paella]

Yikes - I didn't even see the PU/PD forum - so Question 3 is answered - I do it until she falls asleep...which I figured was the answer.  I'll persevere tonight!  So I guess just wondering about the dream feeds - when to end them and how?

Thanks again.

[Layla]

Hi there & welcome

Now, this is where my dilemma comes in - she consistently wakes up sometime between 10:00 and 11:00 and we've been feeding her - we were doing a 'dream feed' when she was smaller, but I don't know if we should be continuing this - and if not, how do we stop??

The second issue is she also consistently wakes up around 3 or 4 AM expecting a bottle because that's what we've taught her to expect...we always have given her one - and it has to stop because frankly, I'm exhausted and she doesn't need it (right?). 

She's probably too old for the pu/pd method so at this age it would be just pd. I would do pd for both night wakings as I don't think she needs it anymore & its habit hunger rather than hunger (& its a prop).

The DF - you could do it gradually by watering the feed down or by offering less & less every night or you could just go cold turkey & do pd instead. I watered down Jasmine's night feed (when weaning) but towards the end still had to do some pu/pd...

I just wanted to comment on the routine as I think her night wakings could be due to the timing of the naps as well. At this age most do 3hrs A time in the morning, about 3ish hrs (no more than 3.5) in the afternoon & 3.5 before bedtime. I've noticed that she is awake for 4.5hrs before bedtime & I believe she could be getting overtired by then

I would suggest something like this:

7:30 - wakes
10.30 - morning nap
11.30 - morning nap ends
2.30-4pm - afternoon nap
7.30pm - bedtime (to be asleep by about 8pm)

She's doing 12hrs at night & 3.5 during the day which is alot for her age (has she always been a baby with more than av sleep hours?)... so the night wakings could also be due to the fact that she is sleeping too much during the day as well as the long stretch before bedtime. Are you finding that she returns back to sleep after the milk feed straight away or is she up for quiet some time before she returns back to sleep???

Layla

[fitfamily]

I just eliminated the 4a feed myself.  My ds is 11m and had a serious low weight issue.  When I dropped the middle of the night BF I used pd.  I actually did this for about 45 min until I had to go to the bathroom.  When I came back I waited because he was doing his tired/going to sleep cry.  He did this for about 10 min and fell asleep.  He did wake up the following 4 nights. However, I didn't go in right away the second night, but was prepared to. He quieted down after about 10 min. 

The df is not nec.  I cut the bottle in half for my dd when she was a baby.  After the 3rd day I didn't offer it.  I just did pd.

[paella]

I just wanted to comment on the routine as I think her night wakings could be due to the timing of the naps as well. At this age most do 3hrs A time in the morning, about 3ish hrs (no more than 3.5) in the afternoon & 3.5 before bedtime. I've noticed that she is awake for 4.5hrs before bedtime & I believe she could be getting overtired by then

I would suggest something like this:

7:30 - wakes
10.30 - morning nap
11.30 - morning nap ends
2.30-4pm - afternoon nap
7.30pm - bedtime (to be asleep by about 8pm)

She's doing 12hrs at night & 3.5 during the day which is alot for her age (has she always been a baby with more than av sleep hours?)... so the night wakings could also be due to the fact that she is sleeping too much during the day as well as the long stretch before bedtime. Are you finding that she returns back to sleep after the milk feed straight away or is she up for quiet some time before she returns back to sleep???

Yes she definitely goes right back to sleep after she feeds at night - sometimes she's asleep within a few sucks off the bottle...so I guess that alone tells me she probably doesn't need to be eating but rather is using the feeding as a prop.

I think your note about the routine we're in is pretty accurate too - I make some changes and keep her up for longer periods of time between the naps and morning wakeup.  I tried to follow her cues and perhaps I've been misinterpreting boredom or some other need (cranky or tired-like behaviour) as being tired.  We'll see how it goes with a little tweaking during the day.

I will say that last night we tried to do 'wake-to-sleep' for the usual 10:00PM feed - it didn't work as expected, although she held off from waking up for about another hour.  However, after that she stirred a little bit through the night at about 3AM (normally wakes), and fell back asleep until about 7 this morning.  So I was pretty happy about that...and we'll keep doing some tweaking and hope that by this time next week (?) she'll be a happy sleeper and so will I!

[paella]

I just eliminated the 4a feed myself.  My ds is 11m and had a serious low weight issue.  When I dropped the middle of the night BF I used pd.  I actually did this for about 45 min until I had to go to the bathroom.  When I came back I waited because he was doing his tired/going to sleep cry.  He did this for about 10 min and fell asleep.  He did wake up the following 4 nights. However, I didn't go in right away the second night, but was prepared to. He quieted down after about 10 min. 

The df is not nec.  I cut the bottle in half for my dd when she was a baby.  After the 3rd day I didn't offer it.  I just did pd.

Thanks for your input about the df - I don't think it's necessary for our daughter and will start decreasing the quantity if she wakes for it.

Good to hear the pd is working - I'll be doing that if necessary and WILL BE STRONG ( ) and no cave in.

[Layla]

You can do it!!! If she falls asleep within a few sucks of the bottle then like you said its definitely a prop. Get rid of the bottle & do pd instead. She will pick up on your consistency

Good luck & keep us posted

[paella]

Just wanted to come in and give an update on how things are going.  Total turn around and I am not exactly sure what I'm doing differently except perhaps I'm more conscious of timing her naps better. 

Em has slept through the night for a little over a week now...and it didn't take much to get her there...she doesn't even take a dream feed anymore.  Basically our new schedule typically looks like this:

7:00 == wake - bottle & breakfast
8:00 == to daycare (this is new and hasn't caused any sleep issues...yet..?!)
10:30 ==  nap (1 hour)
11:30/12 == lunch
1:30  == i pick her up (we're just doing half days until I go back to work at the end of the month to make the transition easier) she has a bottle on the way home usually
2:30 == nap (1.5 hours)
5/5:30 == dinner
6:30 == wind down/bath/stories/bottle
7:00 == bed

and not a peep from her until the next morning - all together now "HALLELUJAH!" 

The first night I was going to go die-hard put down and now cave she woke for a feed (typical dream feed time) and I went in, laid her down - covered her up and put pressure on her back.  She snoozed off again and didn't wake til morning.

The next night she just slept as though she's been doing it all along.  God I love it!

So thank you for your support advice and guidance everyone!

[Layla]

Wow - that is incredible. I am so happy for you