Continuing Major Sleep Issues - Desperately Need Help

[appletree]

My dh and I are headed for a divorce. Seriously, I am so tired and grouchy and he's not sympathetic - instead, he just complains about how tired he is. 

The sleep issue has been recurring for the entire time we've had our foster daughter (about 10 mos.)  Now she's awake for roughly 1 1/2 to 3 hours every night and then several times (about 5 or 6) besides that. When she is awake for the long period of time all she does is scream at the top of her lungs - ear piercing screaming (dh stuffs cotton or ear plugs in so he can sleep). She's inconsolable and actually throws herself around in her bed puposefully hitting head on the sides or bottom of it. She pulls her hair very hard and if I try to hold her she scratches at my face or arches her back struggling to get away. There's a lot of history that I've posted on other threads. I just really don't know what to do. She's off the bottle and uses a sippy. Off formula (soy) and onto regular soy milk. She's using her sippy of water at night as a prop now & is drinking so much that I'm having to change her diaper 2x during the night.  When she's throwing these "fits" it's almost like she's not awake. Most of the time her eyes are closed or if they're open she doesn't respond until I tell her to look at me and stroke her face. This will help for a little but then we're back to the screaming again shortly thereafter. During the long period of time that she's awake screaming she will settle for 5 - 10 mins. and I'll think she's asleep but then we're up again.    I do not know what to do or what I'm doing wrong. When she acted like this before we realized she had a dairy intolerance and it happened when she ate cheese.  So, could she be having an intolerance to the soy? She is very gassy now. And the problems started to occur about the same time that we switched off formula & onto soy milk.  She was behaving this way before all this but not to this extreme and she could settle herself to sleep with little assistance. 

I NEED HELP! Wendee

[Colin Macs Mom]

Wendee.... I've followed your posts about Bella with interest because when I was young I babysat a girl for years who had been born to a crack-addicted mother. She had some developmental issues and such like you've expressed about Bella. I don't recall her ever having sleep problems, but she did have social issues for a while but as she got older they worked themselves out. She was a very special little girl and I still think of her often.

Anyway, I'm thinking that it does sound like the soy is having an effect on her. It definitely sounds like a discomfort/pain situation.

[appletree]

She had soy all day but I got some "rice milk" and had her drink that tonite. Don't know if there's any difference or if I'm seriously going to be messing her system up. 

She went to bed at 7 p.m. tonite which is typical but already woke up at 8 pm. I pd and she went right back to sleep.  I did give her tylenol tonite cuz I thought maybe she was teething (bumpy gums but no actual signs of teeth).  When she's so inconsolable for hours it's hard to not rock her or give her water when she's crying and pointing to where her cup is. (I did remove it from the nightstand but then she just pointed at the spot and cried for it)  .

I don't want to give up on her routine because she needs stability and routine in her life when she goes home she won't have it so I want to give her as much as possible while I have her. I just feel like we take an itty bitty step forward and 2 giant steps back. 

Biomom smokes horribly and on the weekends all 3 wreak of cigarette smoke on their clothes and hair.  Then they have cold symptoms really bad. Especially Bella. So, even her zyrtec for allergies isn't helping and I don't know if that's affecting her either - I know it would me, I'm really allergic to cigarette smoke and it makes it hard for me to breathe - sometimes to the point of using an inhaler so maybe that could be making it hard for her to sleep? I do give her a bath as soon as she gets home.

Is there anything else I can do or should be doing differently to get this to work?  Wendee

[rinajack]

Wendee - is there a need to come off soy formula?  Maybe go back to it?

Has the water drinking in the night gotten worse since you switched to soy milk instead of formula?  Perhaps she is even hungry?  Would the formula be more filling than the soy milk?

I know it isn't the same, but my DD drinks LOADS when she is hungry, if all I offer is something to drink.....

[appletree]

Rina, that's so nice of you to take time to help me when you're feeling yucky. Thank you so much!

I don't know that there's a need to come off it other than the dr. said to start on whole milk. Also WIC won't pay for formula after 12 mos. I got it extended by a month becuz she was a preemie.

The water at night has gotten worse since switching to soy milk but it also has been worse since going from bottle to sippy.  We did that first then switched off formula the following week.  She's refusing to eat a whole lot during the day. Not sure why but she's like this from time to time so I haven't been too concerned. But, should I be feeding her a small meal or snack in the middle of the night? Would that turn into a prop? Maybe it would help, I hadn't really thought about that but it makes sense that she could be hungry I suppose. She definitely does not eat well on weekends when spending most time with biomom then comes home for dinner, bath, & bed. What do ya think?

Thanks again, Rina, that was really sweet of you. Are you & the kiddos feeling better? Hope so! Wendee

[rinajack]

If it is an option for you, I would go back to formula.  I still give Zara formula - she only has 1 sippy of it, in the mornings but it makes up for all the days she eats poorly (ie hardly eats).  It makes me feel comfortable that she is getting good nutrition, and honestly, she just doesn't like milk.

Re the eating very little: is she teething?  Zara hardly touches her food when she is teething, and I have to be sure to offer soft stuff at those times.  Also, Zara's dinner intake improved rapidly when we put her at the table and started to eat dinner as a family, not sure if you do that?  Also at that age, Zara started to self feed, and would not eat purree any more, only family foods...so that she could manage them alone, I often used to cut up the cooked veggies into pea sized pieces, so that they were very easy for her to eat. Also, I steamed the veggies to very soft (not like I like them lol) so that they wouldn't bother her teeth so much, nor require too much chewing.  The timing of her dinner was also important - I had to be sure she wasn't too hungry to eat (yes that can happen LOL), but that she was hungry enough to eat, and that she wasn't too tired to eat (so not too close to bedtime).

At that age, it actually became more important how Zara went with eating her solids than drinking her milk - it was her solids getting her through the night, not the milk.

I am feeling a bit better, certainly coping better, and both the kids are sleeping right now!!!

[appletree]

So, are you saying that Bella could have say a sippy or 2 of formula and then also soy/rice milk in addition to?

She may be teething but likes hard stuff mostly right now - pizza crust (no cheese on it of course), the bottom of a biscuit, saltines, etc. I think the "mashing" feels better on her gums. We do eat at the table as a family and she does like to do it by herself - applesauce is her favorite non-hard food and that's fun to watch her "eat" smear in her hair with the spoon, etc. lol. Timing is hard for us due to visits with biomom. She gets picked up from school (bros, too) at about 4:45 p.m. and then I pick her up at 6 p.m. so she can go home and eat as biomom says she won't eat or drink for her (other than junk - cheetos  ). Then we go back & get her bros at 7 p.m. for bath & bed.  Biomom is already irritated with me for the early pickup during week but when we picked her up later too, she was starving in mid of night and we were basically where we are now. 

She is still drinking probably 24 oz. soy milk and 8 oz. water during nite. She usually eats a great breakfast. But, like I said, lately not too interested in lunch or dinner. Trying to offer healthy "snack" sort of foods during this time, too and sometimes in between. She loves peanut butter and saltines.

So, should I feed her a snack in mid of night? What about the screaming fits for hours?

I'm glad things are going better for you, I do agree with someone on your other thread that you should go get some rest, though. Thanks for any help you've given me or can offer. I really appreciate it. (Bella's gone for another 1 1/2 hrs. without waking...........) Wendee

[rinajack]

Are you saying this screaming goes on AND she has milk in the night? I hadn't addressed the screaming itself as I thought she may be throwing a fit because you won't give her milk in the night?  And I was thinking it could be a spill over tantrum - where her emotions get so out of control she can't handle them?

Certainly you could offer a sippy of formula before bed, and milk at meals...my DD does not have any milk as drinks, but has it on cereal etc.

I think 24oz of milk at this age is quite a bit, maybe she needs less milk in order to fit more solids in? Does she like yoghurt? Could you get soy yoghurt (my dd used to have this) = that would give dairy but would probably be more filling than milk?

I would not offer food in the middle of the night - that is sure to become a habit that I am not sure you would like to be continuing.

Has Bella been asleep that 1.5 hrs since you gave the tylenol?  Could that be your answer?

[LLLena]

Wendee- you mentioned on the other thread that she's been having poop problems.  I think this might be all related to one another.  How often does she do the screaming?  I mean, how long has it been going on?  I realize there is a long back history, but I agree with pps about her being in pain.  It sounds to me like she's having some type of reaction to the soy milk. Can you have the dr check her and possibly get some testing for milk/soy allergy so it is documented and get the treatment or proper milk/formula? 

I know you have your hands full.  ((((Hugs)))) You're doing a great job taking on the foster parent role.  I can imagine it is a thankless job.  However, those kids know you love them and are taking good care of them. 

BTW, Rina has good advice on the food.  I wouldn't give a snack at night unless you're POSITIVE she's hungry.  You're between a rock and a hard place with the biomom drama.  Poor kids.

[appletree]

Rina........no she doesn't have the soy milk except for 1/2 hr. before bed. Then during the night she has 8 oz. water. Then up at 4:30ish a.m. and then give a sippy of soy milk. She didn't used to drink this much while on the bottle.  I gave her rice milk before bed tonite. Tylenol could be helping. She's woken 2x in last 45 mins. but just sat up and I told her to lay down that I was right here and patted her back for a few secs. & she went back to sleep. It's like she wakes & if cant' see me then flips out.  You don't think that doing both formula and soy milk will be hard on her system? She did less screaming for the most part while on formula.    I will get some soy yogurt tomorrow - but if the soy is bothering her will this be ok?  No food in mid of night -that's cool I can handle that. Along with the tylenol I gave her anbesol on her gums. Maybe she is teething and thats why so fussy at night? Are "stomach teeth" on bottom or top? It's her bottom ones that are bumpy.

LLLena...........I agree that I think it is all related. The screaming has been going on since Thurs. night.  usually only lasting 45 mins. However it was 2 1/2 hrs. on Sat. night and 4 hrs. last night. Snoozing only 10 mins. at a time then screaming starts again.  Doesn't start until about 2 a.m. though.

I'm going to try & get a couple hrs. sleep in case she wakes again tonite. Thanks all & I will let you know how tonite goes in the morning. Wendee

[LLLena]

Wendee- Just curious here, why is she drinking 8 oz water at night?  Again, I know there's a back story here, but she *should* be able to sleep the night through.  Anyway... I am also wondering about the soy yogurt being a good idea since the soy milk doesn't seem to be going over well. 

I know I've mentioned it on the other thread, but just consider it.  If soy isn't working for her, consider trying goat's milk instead of rice milk.  From what i've been told by our ped, the rice milk doesn't offer as much nutritional value as goat's milk.  Now, if she's sensitive to the goat's milk, you only have so many options at that point.  But just consider it anyway. 

It really does sound like an allergy/intolerance to the soy as you just started it about the same time this all started, right?  Good luck at the dr tomorrow and don't let the receptionist give you any sh!t.  I wouldn't take it, and I'd be sure to let the dr know she's giving out that medical advice.  You're doing a great job, Wendee!

God bless!
Lena

[rinajack]

Wendee

I don't think that doing soy formula and soy milk will be hard on her system - it may actually be better to slowly decrease the formula and increase the milk (over a number of weeks) than to just switch like you have...might give her system more time to adjust.

Re the yoghurt - I am guessing here that it works the same, but my DD used to be on soy, is now on cows milk - and she tolerated cheese and cows milk yoghurt long before she tolerated cows milk itself - I assume it would be similar with soy...worth a try anyway, you can always stop it if it doesn't work for her. The reason I doubt the soy milk is a total allergy is she was doing ok on the soy formula....I suspect she needs a much slower adjustment, but it certainly couldn't hurt to have her tested.

I think it seems like you are facing a number of issues

1/ digestive issues possibly including hunger
2/ teething - the gnawing on hard foods, pain relief helps etc
3/ some seperation anxiety

So I think you need a 3 pronged attack on this.  Work on getting her to eat more during the day, use some formula if you can, will probably fill her up more, but mostly work on solids.

Treat the teething with teething gels/tylenol/teething powders

Work on building her trust - to be honest, my dd still likes to see us at least once each night also, some kids are like that...but if you can work on her trusting that you will always come, then she should settle more quickly when you do, and gradually require you fewer times.  This one will be harder for you with the biomum issues and what not. My DD used to call us in (by crying) several times a night, after SA kicked in, now we are once most nights, and sometimes not at all.  When she is sick, or teething, dh often ends up sleeping with her , like right now, she has an ear infection.

HTH.

[appletree]

LLLena........... she's drinking water at night because right after we switched off bottles, she'd wake at night and point to where her bottle used to be and her cup now was on my nightstand (nothing would be in them) and scream and point. This happened several nights so I asked Layla if she thought she may be thristy and she said it'd be ok to put a sippy of water in her bed where she could find it so if she woke she could get a drink and go back to sleep. However, this quickly became a prop as she wanted more and more water in the night..........so Layla said no more. I fully agreed so I tried to stop and that was the night that she screamed for 4 hours.  .  Last night, I only put 4 oz. in it and she just wanted to hold it so I was ok with that...for now.

  Let me say that last night was wonderful (at least in terms of how things have been). She still woke about 5 more times from where I last left off writing you. HOWEVER, the longest time period that she was awake was 20 mins.    and it wasn't until 1:30 a.m. I gave her more tylenol and anbesol, a hug, and patted her back. The next few times she woke, I just told her I was right here and pd, patting back for a few and she went back to sleep. She woke this a.m. at 6 and sat in her bed & played (she has NEVER done this, always screams for me to pu). (not sure if you both know she sleeps in our room as we don't have another separate one for her).  I talked to her teacher and said to decrease amt. of drinking and increase solids so we're trying that today.  She ate brkfst pretty well and had a a.m. snack before her cup. This a.m. she slept 1 hr. 45 mins. (again  )- not typical for her.  So this afternoon we'll do a short nap as well and see what happens tonite.

Rina........I still have her on the rice milk (it is vitamin enriched though) and she's had no poop or excessive gassiness issues today so far (and none during night). She's been in the best mood.  which makes me happy.  I'm calling the dr. when they get back in the office in a few as I was way busy this a.m. with my class, so I'll let you both know what he says.

I also talked to Soc. Worker this a.m. re: biomom and concerns and she was great.  I'll post more of that on the relationship thread I have (cheetos one I think).  I'll get back to you in a bit.  Thanks again for all your help - you ladies are spectacular!  Wendee

[rinajack]

So glad thimgs are looking up.  Rice milk sounds fine to me if your paed agrees!  Keep us posted.

[LLLena]

Wendee- I am so please to hear that things are starting to look up!  I'll be lurking around checking up on you.

Lena