Using Pantley's Gentle Removal

[LiemsMum]

Hello,

I'm new to this forum so I don't know if this question has been asked somewhere else, but this has to do with combining Gentle Removal and PU/PD.

I'm starting to wean my LO (6 mos) from a nursing-to-sleep habit. I'm trying both PU/PD as well as Gentle Removal, but I worry about their combined effect. The first is whether I'm sending my LO mixed messages. I'd do gentle removal, then a few PU/PD, then because he still can't sleep, put him back on the breast for gentle removal, etc. Is this just reinforcing his thinking that he needs the breast to get sleepy and fall asleep? The only thing that has worked so far is Gentle Removal, but to be honest, even though he'd let out a cry or two when I remove him from the breast and put him in the crib, sometimes I wonder if he's too sleepy to notice where he is.

My second question has to do with  his feeding. I'm trying to do E.A.S.Y. for the first time as well. By using gentle removal, though, I'm letting him nurse many many times throughout the day and night. So instead of E.A.S.Y., our pattern would look like: wake, breastfeed, solids, activity, wind-down, breastfeed, breastfeed, breastfeed in our tortured quest for sleep. Is this do-able?

Background: My 6m LO up till now has only known nursing-to-sleep. The only exceptions are when he's fallen asleep in a sling/stroller/carseat while we're out and about. I've been merrily doing AP up till now, blissfully unaware of routines, except for the fact that my LO is rather consistent in needing two naps a day (mid-morning and mid-afternoon) and bedtime at around 7:30.

Thanks for your help.




Thanks so much for your help,

A somewhat frazzled mummy.

[Samuel's mum]

My personal take is that gentle removal can be seen as 'phase one'. So by the end your LO is no longer falling asleep with the nipple actually in his mouth. Even if it's for less than a minute - he is ultimately falling asleep on his own.
Then once that is happening you can move to phase two - 'pu/pd'.

Or you can go straight to pu/pd.
Or you can try and avoid using pu/pd depending on how you feel it's going.

The pattern you are describing - bf, solids, A, winddown, bf, bf , bf - isn't the long-term plan if you'd like to try and encourage independent sleep. You (and he) at the moment have a strong nursing/sleep association. If he's having a bf and solids on waking then ideally he shouldn't be needing those pre-sleep bfs for hunger reasons and it really is just about comfort and breast as a prop. The breast is one of the most effective props ever and boy, it can help a baby sleep. But like all props it can jump back and bite you in the long-term - like a baby that wakes with all sleep cycles looking for help to transition to the next one resulting in short naps and/or lots of nightwakings.

You have to think long-term and try and develop another falling to sleep routine in the day. If you start a cycle with bf and solids then be confident that he's not going to need those later feeds before sleep. I would begin with trying to reduce the pre-sleep feeds in length and really keep it to one bf then gentle removal and if you've got to do another bf focus on the fact you want to keep the milk volume as low as you can. That's so he'll begin to take more in the wake-up feeds and the pre-sleep feeds will lose any importance in terms of calories.

Then I think you've got 2 choices. A EAEASY structure. So another feed nearer sleep but that is then followed by something else - a particular song (x100 ), white noise - anything you can think of but not breast. He will no longer be fed just before sleep.

Or go straight to an EASY and again in the winddown have a non-bf sleep trigger (doesn't have to be pu/pd but just a different sleep association). It might mean a tough few days but he will hopefully get the hang.

Then in the longer term if the daytime non-bf sleep trigger really work - white noise, that particular song - you can introduce that at bedtime too and even for any nightwakings. You're just working on breaking that very powerful bf=sleep association.

At his age a lovey (that smells of you) might be a good thing to introduce as well. Up until now bfing to sleep has been one of your big mummy 'tools' and it's going to take a while for you to get confident about another one - but you can do it. For me - it was singing that song x100!

[LiemsMum]

Thanks, you really answered my questions.

I've been easing into it for about a week now, using a hodge podge of tricks, including the old, dependable nursing-to-feed. I'm starting to feel like it's not fair on the DS. From his point of view, his mom's just making him jump through hoops for it, then she's just going to whip it out anyway.

And then over the weekend, he was sick, his throat all raspy so I didn't want him to cry at all. In fact, the night when his nose was plugged and couldn't sleep, I had him in bed with me. So now I don't know if it's too soon to start, but I'm just so drained from all the night-wakings. Seems like he's waking up and crying practically every sleep cycle these last few weeks. I have to do something.

I think I'll have to out-and-out deny the breast to make this work. Once I start this ball rolling, I know I'm committed enough to see it through. (I've developed that stamina from quitting smoking many years ago.) Still, I feel really mean doing this so soon after he was sick. Let's hope it's not all that hard on him, the poor boy.

[Samuel's mum]

I would wait until you are sure he has recovered. Good Luck.

[LiemsMum]

Thanks for your help again. I'll keep you posted on how it turns out.

Uyen