4.5 month old waking between 3am and 4am? Insight?

[Cory'stiredmommy]

HI everyone,

It seems like every time I figure one thing out another pops up!

O.K. 4.5 months old 17.5lbs... Angel Baby, Classic 4 hr EASY.

Feeding at 7am,11am,3pm,7pm and 11pm.... He's waking between 3am and 4am.....

He has been sleeping through the night without a feed for a couple of weeks so I have not been nursing him when he wakes.

I simply do the PU/PD... and after 30 minutes or so he'll fall back asleep and wake around 6:45 for his first feed (note: It is not a big feed - you'd think it would be).

I am curious as to why this is happening - his naps are great, he has no props in his life.... what could it be?

The only change recently is that I changed his last feed to 11pm instead of 11:30. This was because he barely fed at 7am... and the 11am feed was weak too! The night I made the change is the night that he started waking some time between 3am and 4am - crying (He doesn't normally cry - so I know something is bugging him)

Can you help me?

[NiknLily]

Hi.  Not sure how much help I can be but will have a go as a few things spring to mind.  The first is that Tracy says the dreamfeed should not be after 11pm, so 10.30 is a popular time for this, after 11pm it can interfere with night sleep.  However I can see the flaw in that argument in this case as you used to feed at 11.30.  I would try putting the feed back to 11.30 for at least 3 days and see if the night wakings stop, if that doesn't help try bringing it forward to 10.30/45pm.  As he doesn't seem to be hungry its unlikely to be a growth spurt.  He may simply be regressing a little on the whole sleeping through business as it has only been a couple of weeks.  I would say that by using PU/PD he should soon stop waking at this time and once again sleep through.

HTH

[Cory'stiredmommy]

Thanks for the reponse:-)

I thought an 11pm feed was O.K.....? I didn't realize that it is best to be "done" the feed at 11pm?

I will try tonight to wake at 11:00 and see if he still wakes between 3 and 4am.

(I should mention that the 2 previous nights, when he woke, I let him calm himself and sleep for a bit on my chest - well, I guess whole body;-)

My AP may have caused last nights waking - at least last night I did PU/PD... If it doesn't work tonight - I'll move the DF.

(Husband says to me at 3:30am... maybe he just misses his mommy - grrr.... men! - this is a habit, not a missing thing;-).... hubby should know better;-))))) especially at 3:30am. (I should have said "maybe he needs more time with you;-) Wow... that was a little vent:-))))))

[NiknLily]

that sheds some more light  If I remember right it only takes 3 times to form a habit so 2 nights of cuddles with mummy would have led him to wake the 3rd night looking for the same thing.  I think if you continue with the PU/PD he'll get the message soon enough that its not worth waking at that time for.

(Husband says to me at 3:30am... maybe he just misses his mommy - grrr.... men! - this is a habit, not a missing thing;-).... hubby should know better;-))))) especially at 3:30am. (I should have said "maybe he needs more time with you;-) Wow... that was a little vent:-))))))

LOL - this is the sort of response I would of got from DP, in fact he said worse than that on more than one occasion, I frequently got asked "does she want some more tit!!" it used to make me shudder at his choice of words for describing BF'ing and make me want to rip his head of at the same time 

[momofclaire]

Can you post Cory's routine for me, including nap times and lengths? 
I would move the df earlier as suggested by the pp.
Myia

[Cory'stiredmommy]

Here is Josh's routine...

Most days: 7am BF, 9am nap of 1.5-2hrs, 11am BF, 1:00pm -2:30/3:00 nap, 3pm BF, 5:00-5:30 nap, 7:00pm BF Bed at 7:30.

Some days the first nap is only an hour (DS1 - we sometimes have appointments etc). (All the feed times stay the same but he naps then between 12 and 2pm and 4 - 5:15pm.

On night 3 I did PU/PD...and the last 2 nights he has woken at 2 and 4ish... had a little cry and resettled quickly. So far I have kept the DF at 11pm.... Tonight I will move it to 10:45pm. Do you think I should move it up to 10:30? (If he wakes before 7am tomorrow morning I can simply play with him to get him to wait until 7am feed. He is an angel baby so very easy to delay feeds. I must say, however, I don't find him overly hungy in the morning - I thought this was supposed to be the biggest feed:-) Maybe it is a sign to move the DF back? (I would give the world to have DF at 10:00/10:30 and have him sleep to 7am... Right now I am going to sleep at 10 and waking up at 11 for the DF:-(

Sarina

[momofclaire]

If he is in bed asleep at 7:30, I would do the df when you go to bed at 10:00. Dreamfeeds can be tricky because if done to late in the sleep cycle they can actually disturb sleep.   I think 2.5 hours after bedtime is a fine time to do the df.  I am sure you are just dying for the nightwakings to end but it is likely that he still needs a feed.  Tracy does say in her books that most babies can go "overnight" without a feed but that word "overnight" is subjective.  A breastfed baby may not be able to go 12 hours without a feed at that age. 

I hope that helps a bit.
Hang in there.
Myia

[Cory'stiredmommy]

Josh is probably asleep by 7:45... I put him down at 7:30 and he talks to himself and sucks his thumb.
If I did the last feed at 10pm... he'll likely wake at 6am for a feed and doesn't that throw the whole day's schedule off? What would you do to keep everything on track?
Sarina

[momofclaire]

Keep in mind that the idea of easy is to watch his cues not the clock, so if he wakes at 6 hungry then I would either offer a feed and see if he wants to go right back to sleep or just start your day then.  You can do the df at 10:30 but I wouldn't do it later than that. 

[Cory'stiredmommy]

Last night I did the last feed at 10:30pm.... Josh woke around 2am... said "wa wa wa"... and went back to sleep. I didn't hear from him again until 6:55am. He even took a slightly better feed this am too.

So... I will continue with a 10:30pm feed - it seems to have done the trick:-)

Thanks sooo much, ladies!

Sarina

[NiknLily]

Glad that earlier df worked out for you.  I guess when he was waking to feed you wouldn't of noticed the later df causing disruption to his sleep, its only showed up when he started to sleep through the night 

[Cory'stiredmommy]

exactly!!!!!!!!

[donna_issabella]

When Henry starter waking up like that in the middle of the night after his DF, we ended up dropping it cold turkey, as his am feeds were poor too. First night he woke at 1230 and fed, but the next night he slept through and we have not looked back since. OK, I lie, teething sucks!

Hope things continue to work out for you!

[Cory'stiredmommy]

3 nights now.... he doesn't wake until 6:55am... So super happy!!!!!!!
Well, he starts to toss and turn with DS1 starts crying at 6:15am! (That's another chat!)

[momofclaire]

Great!