PU/PD worked at first but now gone downhill, advice please(16 moth old)

[carlanmax]

After endless rocking to sleep and waking at night decided to give this a go, First night must have PU PD 50 times eventually my son stayed lying down and went sleep.
Second night only put down once and he rolled around for 15 minutes while I sat next to him in cot  then he went to sleep. Stayed in his room for a week getting closer to the door then left the room and the first night he went on his own. Second and third night he seems to be aware I'm leaving the room now and cries. If I go back in and PU PD he goes.

So what do I do now, go back to staying in the room untill he is asleep or do I PU PD and walk back out the room how ever many times it takes untill he goes to sleep.

When he settles well he seems to sleep through but when he cries going to sleep he seems to wake in the night. Also when I go to him in the night should I stay in his room or PU PD and leave straight away?

Thanks for help

Carla

[Peek-a-boo]

Hi, welcome to the Babywhisperer forums!   

Given his age, there's another sleep training technique that you can use, which may actually help you best in this situation.  It is called wi/wo.  Here's an explanation of how to do it from the FAQ:

WI/WO Method

Follow your bedtime routine being certain that your child has sufficiently wound down from the day.  When wind down is completed, lay your child down, tuck them in and use a phrase they can associate with it's sleep time such as "time to go night-night you can find your blankie/pacifier/suck your thumb/etc. to help you fall asleep."  Leave the room.  Stand outside of your child's door and assess the situation.  It's important to distinguish between different types of cries and identify when your child is truly upset and when they may be settling themselves.  Remain outside the room if your child is making fussy-type cries or noises.  If crying is starting then stopping, hang back and wait.  If crying escalates go in to resettle your child.  Repeat your phrase "time to go night-night you can find your blankie/pacifier/suck your thumb/etc. to help you fall asleep" and leave again.  Comforting should be brief and you should avoid picking up your child.

Upon leaving the room again, wait outside the door and reassess the situation.  The amount of time you wait is determined by how your child is reacting inside.  The key is to hang back enough to give your child space to fall asleep independently, but to respond to truly upset cries.

I would use this both at bed time and for any night wakings.

Is your LO falling asleep independently for his nap as well?   What does his daily routine look like (wake time, nap time, nap length, and bed time)?

[carrie13]

Hi Carla,
I'm new here too, but I have found everyone so far to be very kind, and VERY supportive!  I can totally sympathize with you with the endless rocking and night wakings.  Our son has just recently started waking in the middle of the night as well, he had been sleeping through the night since around 4 months old.  So to have him waking up, and his naps are getting shorter and shorter is very frustrating.  It's equally frustrating trying to find the right answer and the right solution for your child.  We first learned of WI/WO when I first found this form...  almost immediately I got feedback, and was willing to give it a try... anything to help my son get the rest he so desperately needed, not to mention the rest I so desperately needed.  My son however got SO upset with the WI/WO... before this we did the "Sleep Sence Program" to help teach him to sleep through the night.  Once we got him sleeping 12 hours a night, we did resume rocking him to sleep, and for that we are paying the price.  Since he did not seem to handle the WI/WO we decided to try the Gradual Withdrawal Program and although I think it is going to take sometime to get through, I think it will all be worth it in the long run.  You might what to see if maybe the GW would be best...  I went away for a the first time a few weeks ago, and when I came home, all this started, so we feel that he is going through Separation Anxiety, and because of that we felt the GW would be best.  It's just a thought...  below is the link that was sent to me...

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0

I wish you the very best luck, and I'll send you a little prayer you and your LO get some rest!!!

Hugs!
-Carrie

[carlanmax]

Thanks for your reply think we are going to the WI/WO a try tonight I am a bit nervous as we did controlled crying in the past which didnt work and resulted in Max being sick almost every night.But we both feel that if we carry on staying with Max while he goes to sleep we will be back to square one like rocking.
Just wanted to check that when we go out of his room do we make him know we are there or stay quiet ?

[Layla]

Hi Carla & welcome (again)

Unlike controlled crying (where you leave them for increments of time) with WI/WO you keep coming back (at the end of your count) so hopefully he will not work himself up so much that he makes himself sick. When you leave the room you stay outside (I wouldn't say anything) in case he is calming down & you talking to him could hype him up.... but you return as soon as your count ends & as long as he is still crying. If he stops crying at the end of your count you don't go in. If he starts crying again after being quiet... you start the count again & go in at the end of the count.

When you are in the room reassure him... so you could do pd & tuck him him, say your night time phrase "I love you... its time to go to sleep" & then leave

Just stick to what you are doing & it will pay off!!! You've come to the right place & we'll be here for support & help until your little man is sleeping straight through the night

What time do you put him down to sleep... if he's overtired he'll be harder to settle. Does he take 2 or 1 naps. What does his daytime schedule look like?

Layla

[carlanmax]

Thanks again but starting to think to maybe carry on with gw maybe starting the withdrawal again towards the door, but not sure if this is recommended as is it thought of as a step backwards?Also don't think my husband will agree with me & he puts Max to bed.Just feel like we haven't given Max a chance its only been nearly two weeks or do most babies settle themselve by themself after this amount of time ?
Max has one nap in the day about 1ish for between an hour or an hour & a half. He has this in the car because I cant handle the stress of putting him in his cot. we put him to bed about 8ish with his bedtime routine starting at about 7.15, but dont think he is over tired though.
Sorry dont understand what you mean by "your count"
Hope this makes sense I'm doing it quickly before Max wakes up!
Thanks again

[carrie13]

Good Morning Carla!

I can totally understand your confusion about all this, because I still have so many questions!! My son is 19 1/2 months old and up until this point had been sleeping through the night since he was 4 months old, so I know that this is a step backwards.  However, I do feel that this is something we need to do in order to help him relearn how to settle in again. We've only been doing it a few days so we are in the VERY early stages of GW, after our first night of heavy crying and fighting, it did seem to get better, but I have been warned he will probably regress in a few days, so we are waiting.  I also read here that when you try a new "program" to stay with it at least a week, and since you have been doing the PU/PD now for 2 weeks, maybe you should try something new??  Again I'm no expert, I'm still learning myself, I just can relate to a tired mom trying to get her LO back on track.  As for the overtired part, I never even thought that about my son because he NEVER had any break downs or even acted tired... but since I've switched his schedule a little, it does seem like his naps are becoming longer...  I've pushed back his nap from 11:00 to around 11:30/11:45, and just that little bit of a move, plus having lunch before his nap instead of after seems to have helped.  But we still have the NW, still not sure how the GW is going to help with those, but so willing to keep on chugging along. 

I don't think I answered your questions or helped, but keep your chin up, it has to get better... right?!?!  LOL

Many Hugs!

[Peek-a-boo]

By "count" Laylya means that when you're in the hall, it can help to count to 5 or 10 seconds just to give yourself time to assess the direction of your LOs cry.  It's different than controlled crying because you respond based on your LOs cries, not a pre-set time frame.  Also, if your LO is upset, the longest you're out of the room is 5-10 seconds rather than minutes like with controlled crying.

Hmmm . . . . sometimes car naps are not as restful as regular naps because the motion can keep your LO from dropping into deep sleep . . . .since you're sleep training right now, have you considered training for naps too?  What time does your LO wake in the morning. 

Here's a link that describes all of the toddler sleep training options:  https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63896.0

The trouble with continuing with GW is that from what you describe, you went through the proper process--gradually moving toward the door--and now you need to move on to the next step.  Gradual withdrawal can sometimes start to back fire as when LO has normal partial awakenings in the night, he may expect you to be there and feel betrayed that you're not.  It's not wrong to continue with GW for a bit, but I think wi/wo is likely to move you toward your ultimate goal more quickly.  However, you and DH need to be united and willing to do things the same way. 

 

[carlanmax]

Morning,
Had a bit of a result last night with Max. Wasnt brave enough to attenpt WI/WO so my husband put Max down then went out of the room very breifly then sat outside Max room with the door open so he could see him. Max fell asleep quietly taking slightly longer at 25 minutes, but I felt it was progress.
He then woke at 5.45 which is a tricky time so I sat in his door way til he fell asleep. He did keep checking I was still there so he has cottoned on to the fact we are trying to get father away, but he finally fell asleep at 7 the I woke him at 8.
Things are not perfect but they are much better than they were. We are going to try the doorway thing for next couple of nights & if no improvement think we will go on to WI/WO (hoping it wont get to that though)
Just wanted to say a big thank you to the replies we received its lovely to knoew people are out there givivg up their valuable time to help others with advice |& reassurance. Keep up the good work.
 

[Peek-a-boo]

Let us know how you get on.