Author Topic: 4.5 month old sleeping restlessly  (Read 2271 times)

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Offline ElsMom

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4.5 month old sleeping restlessly
« on: November 06, 2007, 22:03:10 pm »
Hi!  My 4.5 month old has never been a great sleeper, but I finally found the BW books and this site, and I'm determined to improve things!  I started feeding her at 3.5 hour intervals about 3 weeks ago, then moved her naps from her swing to her crib 8 days ago.  Both transitions went better than I expected.  She can go 4 hours between feedings, but her sleeping is so erratic that 3.5 hrs usually seems to work better with the rest of her "schedule".  She wakes at least 3-4 times a night, sometimes as much as 10 times - I know, it's a little ridiculous.  Usually when she wakes, I can get her back down with shh/pat in 10-15 minutes.  I've been tracking wake times, and occasionally there's a pattern, but it seems fairly random.  She'll nap for 45 minutes (I've been on the short nappers board) and then will sort of wake up, and this is my question:  both when she wakes up after 45 minutes of napping, and when she wakes up after 4 am (used to be 5 before daylight saving time), I can get her to sort of go back down with shh/pat, but not completely.  I can spend 30-45 minutes trying to help her get back to sleep, and she will drift off every few minutes just to jerk awake a minute later, cry, kick her legs, and we start over.  She's overtired, there's no question there, only getting about 12 hours total on a good day.  But it's like by the end of her first nap cycle or by that time in the morning, she's had enough rest to take the edge off and has enough energy to really fight sleep.  Her grandmothers both say they've never met a baby like her - she won't have anything to do with being rocked to sleep, which is why she ended up addicted to the swing for 2 months.  For what it's worth, in the swing she usually took 1 to 2 hour naps, but her nightwaking was about the same as it is now, and it was more frustrating because I couldn't do sshh/pat or anything when she woke early from a nap because she was strapped into a seat.  So I don't know what's going on with the fitful waking at the end of these sleep cycles.  Usually after 30-45 minutes of me leaning over her crib, I can get another 30-45 minutes out of her, but it's so labor intensive on my part and doesn't really seem to be showing improvement.  She's obviously not ready to get up, because she doesn't really open her eyes - she cries out, slams her legs against the mattress, moves her head from side to side, etc.  If I leave her alone (thinking it's a mantra cry), the crying escalates and then she's awake and mad and tired.  Any help would be greatly appreciated!  I don't even know how to classify the problem, much less come up with a solution.  Thanks so much!
Lisa
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Offline elmarie

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Re: 4.5 month old sleeping restlessly
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2007, 09:32:39 am »
Would you mind posting your routine for us to have a look at.  It might need tweaking... :) :)



Offline ElsMom

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Re: 4.5 month old sleeping restlessly
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2007, 12:24:52 pm »
Hi - thanks!  I just posted our "routine" on the EASY forum, too - I know it needs help!
Wake sometime between 6:30 and 7:00, with sometimes 1.5 hours of restless sleep and shush/pat after a 4:45 to 5 am wakeup
E - 7:00
A
S - 9:00
Y
? - 9:30 or 9:40, awake, tired, crying, needs shush/pat for about 30 minutes while drifts in and out.  Most of time can get back down for 30-40 more minutes.  No point in getting her up and doing EASAS most of the time because her eyes aren't open, but it's definitely not the mantra cry.
S - 10:00-ish
Y
E - 10:30 (unless can get her to sleep until 11:00, depends on how long the ? part takes)
A
S - 2 hours after wake - so 12:30 or 1:00
Y
?
S - 1:30 or 2:00
Y
E - 2:00 or 2:30
A
S - 4:00 or 4:30
Y
E - 5:00
A
bedtime routine starts with bath around 6:45, then read book, nurse, and asleep around 7:30
3-4 NW typical, sometimes 6+
Lisa
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Offline yaya

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Re: 4.5 month old sleeping restlessly
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2007, 12:31:31 pm »
just wanted to say that my DD is same age and exactly the same
BUt nothing I do makes any diff to NWs...and we r up between every 20mins and every 2hrs every night...no idea how to fix it so lurking here!

Offline elmarie

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Re: 4.5 month old sleeping restlessly
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2007, 16:27:49 pm »
You routine seems on the right track.  Here is what I will aim for

7am wake
9am  sleep (1.5-2h).  You are correct by extending this nap with shh/pat
1pm sleep (1.5-2h)
Between 5-6 catnap of 40ish min to get through supper and bath time
7.30pm bed
11.00pm dreamfeed (until 7-8 months or when solid food is firmly established

When she wakes at night what do you do to get lo back to sleep?

 :)




Offline ElsMom

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Re: 4.5 month old sleeping restlessly
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2007, 18:26:49 pm »
Thanks for the advice.  When she wakes at night, she usually just needs shush/pat to get her back down, and it normally takes about 15 minutes.  Instead of a dreamfeed, I've been letting her wake up and eat - she's really good about going back down on her own after the feeding, it's the only time she doesn't need shush/pat.  That's sometime between 12 and 1 am.  I'm exhausted by 9:30 pm, so I'd rather just go to sleep and let her wake me when she's hungry.  She usually wakes at least once before then, but I don't feed unless it's at least midnight.  I tried a catnap last night at 5:15 because she was so obviously tired, and she wasn't at all interested.  I stopped try at 5:40, because I figured it was too close to bedtime by that point.  Once we get her in the tub at 6:30 or 6:45, she's perfectly happy, so we really just have to make it until then!
Lisa
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Offline gpmom

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Re: 4.5 month old sleeping restlessly
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2007, 19:09:53 pm »
Weused to have grumpy hour before bed until bath time as well.  We move everything forward about .5 hr and it really helped  I wish I could help with your nw, I dont have a whole lot of experience with it but have a few questions
are you swaddling?
is there a dummy.
What about soothing music in her room to lull her?
Joan...mom to Daisy!!
Born July 25, 2007
My perfect little bug.

Offline Lison

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Re: 4.5 month old sleeping restlessly
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2007, 02:01:30 am »
I completly understand what you are going through. As I am writing to you right now, my 4 months old daughter is doing the same thing. I actually just wrote a posting a few minutes ago. I can't really help you very much as I am going through the same thing but you mentioned that your daughter jerks sometimes when you try to put her to sleep. My daughter, does the same and the thing that helps is swaddling her. I have bought a swaddling blanket and this keeps her from jerking. Even thought she is 4 months old, she still uses her blanket. At least it help a little.

good luck.

Offline ElsMom

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Re: 4.5 month old sleeping restlessly
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2007, 02:28:38 am »
Thanks gpmom and Lison.  I have tried swaddling, and she seemed to really fight it once she figured out what I was doing.  The first time, she slept about 2 hours (at night) and then kicked her legs around when I tried to reswaddle her, so I couldn't really get her back in.  I've got a swaddling blanket I could try - maybe I shouldn't have given up so easily.  I might try tomorrow for a nap and see what happens.

She won't take a pacifier - I've tried about 8 different kinds, and she always acts like she's gagging or she just cries when I try to give her one.

We do keep soothing music playing all through nap time and for the first part of bed time.  I don't know if it helps, but it doesn't hurt!
Lisa
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Offline pbmom

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Re: 4.5 month old sleeping restlessly
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2007, 03:17:44 am »
FWIW - I know that my lo could never do the "recommended" A time.  She is 17 weeks and only does 1.5 hrs A time in the morning.  It makes the rest of our day look like EASAEAS, but it works.  She does the 2 hrs for every other easy cycle.  Just something to consider as maybe she's cumulatively OT/OS?  I know mine sleeps fitfully and has a lot of NW/short naps when OT or OS.

Q: does she go down well for naps or fight you?

I swaddle still with legs out as she prefers to be able to cross her ankles.  It really helps with the arm jerking thing!
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Offline elmarie

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Re: 4.5 month old sleeping restlessly
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2007, 16:29:05 pm »
Elsmom I think you are doing a good job by using shh/pat to get her back to sleep.  You can also maybe start using pu/pd, but continue with what works for you-Continue using it as night as well as extending nap.s  Remember you are teaching her independent sleep and by not feeding her at night you are teaching her to self sooth.  It will settle down,just keep going.. :)

Well done...
« Last Edit: November 08, 2007, 17:13:30 pm by elmarie »



Offline Lison

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Re: 4.5 month old sleeping restlessly
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2007, 17:08:05 pm »
I have bought a swaddle blanket called The Miracle Blanket. It helps. They say that babies will fuss at first when you swaddle them but then they get used to it.

Offline ElsMom

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Re: 4.5 month old sleeping restlessly
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2007, 18:17:37 pm »
Thanks for all the encouragement and suggestions.  We've had a pretty good day and a half, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

PBMom - she goes down well for sleep now that I know what works.  As long as no one tries to rock her or anything, and I just do the routine, put her in her crib, and pat her bottom for 5 minutes or so, she's out.  She'll rub her face across the mattress and cry a little, but I haven't had to use PUPD to get her down initially in several days.  My MIL was even able to get her down 2 days ago when I was out for a couple of hours.  I was racing home to make it before she needed to go to sleep, and when I walked in the door, she had been asleep for 5 minutes.  I'm so glad someone other than me can do this!  (But I'm also glad it gets to be me most of the time.   :))
Lisa
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Offline pbmom

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Re: 4.5 month old sleeping restlessly
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2007, 19:27:32 pm »
That's great - excellent job teaching her to sleep independently!
Robyn

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