NIGHT WAKINGS WORSE AFTER TRANS!!!!!!

[karinli]

Hello

My DS is 4 months old, he has been on a perfect (& I mean PERFECT) 3 hour EASY since 8 weeks old, sleeping from 7-7 & taking 3 1 & 1/2 hour naps plus a catnap; I have always put him down awake; he is EBF & has always been an efficent eater taking 5-7 minutes for a full feed (from one side) since birth; & i have upped my milk supply by switching sides now; he now weighs 16 lbs.

Approx a month & a half ago he started waking @ 6am when he was 3 & 1/2 months old; not crying; not mantra; just waking up & talking to himself or looking for his paci (since I have taught him to put it in himself); this escalated into waking every hour doing the same; I decided it was time to change his routine to 4 hours & we have been eating now @ 7,11,3,7 & a DF @ 11, starting about 3 weeks ago; he seems fine & lasts for the 4 hours never crying or showing signs of hunger, but his naps have not quite settled themselves out yet, & I am finding it very difficult to keep him up past 8:30am, & during this, the dreaded 45 nap has started too.

Most days he will take his hour + naps in the morning, & gets an average of 3-4 + hours a day, but the afternoons towards the end of the day prove difficult; he gets cranky & he has trouble going down, seemingly overtired after a brief walk in the stroller.

Things changed for a bit after switching the routine, not waking at night but still awake @ 6am & waiting, talking to himself until 7am; but now he is waking everynight an hour earlier (last night 3am & in & out until 7am); still no crying; no mantra; just awake.

Awake times consist of trying not to overstimulate him; initially just after this all started we transitioned back home from peace & quiet at Grandma's house to life in the big city where it is very noisy all the time; to his crib, through time changes ETC, he seemed to adjust pretty well at first.....

He has been teething since 8 weeks & is reflux & is taking Randititine, but this has never effected his eating or sleeping before & he is generally happy even through all of this.

I thought the change in routine would help, but it hasn't; I think (& have thought for awhile) that he needs to start solids (ALL the signs are there) but EVERYONE says to wait until 6m; is it because his naps are not completely in sync yet (it's only been about 3 weeks since trans) but things are NOT progressing, they are regressing as every day goes by, otherwise you would think just to give it more time.

ANY THOUGHTS??

TIA

MM
 

[momofclaire]

Can you post the times he takes naps?  Have you tried feeding when he first wakes? It could be that he isn't totally ready for 4 hour feeds and is hungry.  There is also a growth spurt around 4 months that is a biggie! It seems like there is a lot going on right now with all the transitions.  For noise, I would put a fan or white noise machine in his room. 

[karinli]

Naps are hard to say as it has been varying, but he always gets 3 hours everyday minimum even if it's EASASE & I keep it as close to the routine as possible but only a few times has he slept the full 1 & 1/2, however, on the worst days what happens is he wakes 45 minutes later & is already almost overtired by the time he feeds; I do PU/PD, but like today he did not sleep at all from 8:30am, but finally drifted off at 10:40 with 20 mins to feed; this b/c he was awake from 3am on; for the past 3 days naps looked like this;
A  5am
E  7
A 
S  8:30
A 10:25
E 11
S 12
A 12:15
S 12:30
A 1:45
E 3
S 3:30
A 5
S 6
A 6:30
E 7

Then yesterday
E 7
A
S 8:30
A 10
E 11
A
S 11:30
A 12:30
S 2
E 3
S 4:30
A 5
E 7

Today
A 3am
A 4am
A 5am
A 6am
E 7
A
S 8:40
A 9:15
S 10:40
E 11:15
A
S 12:20
A 1:15
45 min PU/PD.........



I have not tried to feed him in the night yet b/c he wasn't showing signs of hunger (crying, dry cough, waa waa) ETC, all his does is play around & mumble, with everything the way it is, I didn't want him to get used to feeding @ 4am or everytime he awakens, will that happen? Otherwise, it's worth a try.

We did go through the growth spurt exactly when we arrived home (& that was fun & confusing too), but it seemed to vanish after a few days & yes, there is a fan in the room!

MM

[momofclaire]

Are you going to him even when he isn't crying?  I would leave him alone unless he crys out for you. Is it possible that he would do better on 3.5 hour easy?  If you did that then you could stay on an e,a,s pattern and maybe if he is hungry at night you will fit an extra feed in during the day.  The repeated waking usually does signal hunger.  Strange that he isn't crying though.  What happens when he wakes, exactly?

[karinli]

No I do not go to him unless he starts to escalate with actual crying, & it's more of an overtired, frustrated holler in the daytime during naps, & today he slept for 20 minutes after over an hour of PU/PD just before his 3pm feed & that was THAT, then a walk in the stroller (he usually will catnap; no go) & finally I let him cry (while I was holding him) between 6-7 (his usual fussy time since BIRTH) & he konked out on me for another 20 after that, then jammies & feed & BED (he always goes down @ 7) no matter what.

This 3 & 1/2 was strange too, & even so; he is always fussy even eating @ 5:30 & then 7; early evening has always been when he kicks it up; I thought the new routine (losing a feeding) would dispell the night wakings! (All the signs were there to trans to 4) but I may go back & give that another try......

I know, if he was starving hungry during the night he would scream his head off (as that's what he does when he's hungry); he literally stirs, plays with his paci & talks low to himself; no crying; he will start making a bit of noise at 6:45am even though he always wakes at 6 now regardless of any other wakings during the night.

[karinli]

......you would think after being on EASY so early with no sleeping & eating problems that this would be easier to settle; it seems that maybe it's the new environment (?) NO, it's not that bad & they are very adaptable; we've been back home for a month & are now going back (to the peace & quiet) again in a few days for Christmas (yikes) back on the plane & another 2 hour time change.....

MM

[Katet]

I don't think solids are going to change anything, if he isn't waking up hungry, infact in a EBF baby they can tend to increase wakings not decrease them when introduced (even at 6mo)

I also don't think no matter how good things are, when you hit one of the MANY blips things go astray...I think you were lucky to end up with a perfect 3hour easy, most babies just don't do it like that, even my ds#2 - 95% Angel would do anything from 2.5-4.5hours in his first 4months.

Around 4mo they start to get very observant of their surroundings & waking & talking to themselves is very normal, some start to roll too. I know at 4mo my #2 used to be awake from before 6am (checked sometimes) yet we'd hardly hear from him until after 7am ( then he'd be up the other end of his cot though)  For that reason I think it is REALLY important to follow their cues rather than say you need to be on a 3 or 4 hour EASY, sometimes they might need a 3, 3.25, 4, 3 kind of day & certainly by 6mo many babies actually are more likely to only want 10 hours at night & are impossible to get 12 hours from... they haven't read the books yet so they do what their bodies tell 

[karinli]

This does make sense, I also think he needs more time to settle into everything.......!

[benandmichelle]

So Katet...what should one do in this case...start the day at 5am and they go to bed at 5pm?? Do they eventually warm into getting  12 hours at night at some stage? I feel like I am never going to get 8 hours sleep again!

[Katet]

Honestly I've never really tried for 12 hours sleep with my 2, I actually get about 11.5 from my 4yo now he has dropped naps, but he pretty much did 8-6.30 sometimes 7am until he was about 3 & then it got to be 7.30-7am now he doesn't nap. My 2.5yo did do 12 hours for a while but around when he first moved to 1 nap, but mostly he has sat around the 11 hour mark too, although he is also choosing to drop naps & can sometimes do 13hours.

I've always worked on saying 7.30/8pm is the bedtime & then worked the day to aim for that, sometimes it needed to be earlier eg moving to 1 nap/dropping a nap, but wakeups changed too  -both having runs of 5.30am +/- wake ups, I always try to get them back to sleep until 6.30am, but it hasn't always worked as they don't go back to sleep, but 11 hours seems to have been a norm in this house... infact the only people I know in RL who have got 12 hours out of their children have girls... also read something about that somewhere too.
& 8hours a night... well I get that by having a 9.30pm bedtime most nights
Personally I think it is best to set a bedtime & work towards that as an "average"  to get them to a reasonable wakeup time rather than working towards a magic 12 hours of 7-7 or 6-6 etc.

[karinli]

Well, I was thinking about that; just b/c he slept for 12 for the first 3+ months doesn't mean he's going to do it now, or necessarily forever; I could attempt to move his bedtime to 8, but those last hours are very long towards bedtime, that is his fussy time AND the fact that he is ready to sleep by 7, even if he had a nap 4-5.

[Katet]

If he is ready at 7pm then keep it at that, but maybe try 5mins later every few days.
It is all a juggling act & it gets worse around each time they drop a nap... I have a 4yo & a 2.5yo both dropping their last nap & I can tell you it is so hard when they have an 8hour A time (2.5yo), it isn't easy to get the balance.