Is 2 1/2 year old giving up his nap? And if so, how do you cope?

[debandbrian]

Sleepy mom here...I've read all the faqs about how much sleep ds should be getting, and everyone's tidbits on when their lo's stopped napping...but how do you know when it's time?

DS has been giving us a harder time going down for a nap the past few weeks (and at bedtime, occasionally) -singing, talking, sometimes working up to a scream or cry, but we can usually get him to sleep and in the end he naps 3-4 hrs on weekends (too long, I know, but he doesn't get enough night time sleep, no matter what we do...) At daycare he gets a  90 min nap which seems to catch up to him by Saturday....PLUS, his log book has said he's been sleeping every day, but when I asked the teacher last week if she has to help/coax him to sleep at all, she replied "No, he does it on his own. But he doesn't sleep every day." (Nice of them to tell us !) Anyway, on our end he has had maybe 4 no nap days in the last 2 mos, but who knows how many at daycare...he gets wired and clumsy but he isn't terrible to deal with.

So I'm just wondering if he's ready to give them up altogether, or are there toddlers who nap some days but not others?

And my big question is how do you then find the Y time, or in mine and dh's case, the US time? We have made a conscious effort to nurture our relationship during that weekend nap time. I am absolutely terrified we'll never have another meaningful conversation again......

Advice is desperately needed!!!
Deb

[Layla]

Deb, I only have a min but will be back in about an hour to post what my experience has been so far.

Can you tell me what his daytime schedule looks like? What time does he wake? What time is the nap & the time he goes to bed

Layla

[Layla]

Deb,

Right around that age...when Isabella turned 2.5yo her daytime nap started to dissappear. She went from consistently (well maybe missing a nap here or there) sleeping 1.25hrs a day (with a 10.5ish hrs at night) to nothing at all! It was a big shock to me. We had other issues though at that time... she got quiet frightened of her room/cot and did not want to be in her room but at night she had no troubles sleeping there it was just during the day. She didn't sleep for 2 weeks... with an occasional snooze if she was in the car. She was one tired, clumsy & difficult toddler to deal with! Finally 3 weeks later her dad was going to take a nap in our bed on the weekend she followed him. I walked in 10mins later to see how things were going & they were both out of it, lol. So in the end to get her to nap I resorted to her napping with me. I stayed with her and would leave once she was asleep. Her nap was restored & almost consistently went on for another 3 months (she would nap every 2nd day or so & would not be able to last 3 days of no nap in a row) until 3 weeks ago where it became waaay too much of a hassle & battle for me to get her to nap & she's now not napping at all (again unless in a car... which I can't do on weekdays because Jasmine is napping at that time).

This might not be "it" for your DS but he's definitely at the right age to be in the transition towards dropping a nap & he might nap one day and then not need another one for another day or more and then nap again. So at daycare its ok if he doesn't sleep some days & does others but you would need to make it clear to them you want to know when he doesn't sleep cause on those days I would suggest an earlier bedtime. I asked for your routine & will be waiting for you to post it back but until about a month ago Isabella was doing 12hr nights on the days she didn't nap so rather than keeping him up until his normal bedtime I would aim for 7pm bedtime (assuming he wakes around 7am). She is now between 11.5-12hrs at night.

I don't think a 4hr nap on weekends is necessary & a nap that long is probably whats causing battles at bedtime, etc... I think at that age 1.5hrs is more than enough. Up until Isabella stopped napping, her nap was only about 1hr long. It ranged from 45mins to 1.25hrs with a few 1.5hrs but that was very rare. It was only about 1hr long... she dropped it to 1hr-ish on her own but when need be I would wake her up by 2pm so that she would fall asleep before 8pm.

I also think windown is very important & especially at that age... I found that I had to read alot more books to try and get her tired enough for nap time. I also pushed her A time to 6.5-7hrs... so she woke around 6am & her nap would start between 12.30-1pm. If she was not asleep by 1ish then I would forget about the nap and do an earlier bedtime (again to allow for a 12hr night). So in your case rather than leaving him in the cot/bed and forcing a nap and letting it go on for 4hrs, I would take him out, do dinner/supper at an earlier hour & do an earlier bedtime. Yes, he will be cranky but try to distract him by taking him out of the house, etc...

And my big question is how do you then find the Y time, or in mine and dh's case, the US time? We have made a conscious effort to nurture our relationship during that weekend nap time. I am absolutely terrified we'll never have another meaningful conversation again......

In our case there is no "true" Y time until she goes to sleep at night (which is between 6 -6.30pm). We now do quiet time so you could give him some books & give him about 1-1.5hrs of quiet time in his room & take some time out as well. Mine will not stay in her room & rather than her calling out to me all the time and then waking up her sister I allow her to watch a dvd for about 1.5hrs until Jasmine wakes up and then we continue on with our day. I am in the same room as her and she might come up to me & just sit on my lap for a little bit. We also read books at the start (before the dvd), then I give her a light snack & she might do her own thing like play with toys or she will watch a dvd.

Don't be scared of your son giving up the nap. It was really hard for me too at the start & I was quiet annoyed because she is younger than most (well from what I read) & I was sure she would nap until she was at least 3yo. I was not prepared at all! It was really difficult to have her around all day, especially towards the end of the day. If we are at home things are harder so I save the trips to the park or other activities for the afternoon. When she's very cranky I take her to my bed or the couch, give her her lovey to encourage some more quiet time & relaxation & this usually works for us. We do dinner at 4ish pm with milk at 5pm & then a light snack around 5:45ish with bedtime soon after that.

So to answer the "Y time" question... I think you really need to aim for an earlier bedtime & then you can at least be compensated in the evening if he didn't nap at daycare or on the weekends. Isabella is out of it as soon as she hits her pillow & dh & I are alone from 7pm (which is when Jasmine goes to sleep).

hth a little & let me know how things are going
Layla

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Hi Layla! I have been watching this post as we are going through similar nap and bedtime troubles. Do you think that 27mths is too young to start transition? I am sorry I don't mean to hijack, but your response makes perfect sense to our situation.

[Layla]

No such thing as hijacking . I found that from 2.5yo Isabella's sleep needs changed dramatically & like I said in my pp she went from being 100% consistent & only missing naps when she was forced (like if we had to go out or something) to all of a sudden not napping. At 27months I don't think Isabella would have been too good without a nap but some do give up quiet young

What is he doing at the moment?

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Like most kids, Gage was a perfect sleeper (with a lot of work) until he went to a big boy bed. His big boy bed is really his crib with one side taken off, so there isn't a huge change. Anyway, things were rocky at first then smoothed out and for about the last 1 1/2 month sleep is a nightmare. He started getting out of bed for both naps and bedtimes. Then I extended his A time before nap to 6hrs and naps became fine (until 2 days ago), but bedtime is still a nightmare. I just don't know what to do. He keeps coming out of his room. I have tried putting him back in his bed, just putting him back in his room and letting him do whatever, sitting next to the  door so he can see me, and verbally resassuring him periodically. He did go to sleep with no prob. last night and tonight, but that is because he didn't have a nap.  This why I though he may be trying to get ready to ditch the nap. It just seems he isn't tired enough to sleep when he naps. I think i need to fiddle around with his routine, but have not had the opportunity as we have no routine right now. 

The routine I have been attempting is like this.

7:30 wake
1:30-3 nap
8:30/9 bedtime

I am at my whits end.

[Mom to M&M]

Gage's mom - have you tried cutting his nap to one hour to see if a little shorter nap is enough to make him tired enough at night?

[debandbrian]

Layla thank you so much for your detailed response. I don't think you know what a big help that was.  Let me preface by saying ds is a spirited toddler, and will only watch tv for about 20 mins, and he'll only play on his own for about 15-20 mins if I'm around (seems to do it longer when I'm nowhere in sight!). He is wonderful and fairly easy-going, but he demands a lot of undivided attention...
That being said, his weekday and weekend routines are a little different and look like this:

Monday to Friday:
Wake between 6 & 6:30 - breakfast and in the car by 7:30 at the latest (we are both teachers...)
Play, snack, lunch at 11:30
12:30 - 2:30 is nap time at school, but his log book often says he didn't fall asleep until 12:45 - 1:00
3:45ish we pick him up
4:15 home/play
5:00 dinner
6:00 bath
7:00 wind down
7:30 lights out - sometimes he goes to sleep right away, sometimes he talks until 8 - sometimes we have to go in and tell him to go to sleep and other nights he does it happily on his own, though 'happily' hasn't happened much lately.

On the weekend, we start nap a bit earlier because he sleeps between 3 & 4 hours so the nap is 12:30 - 4:00ish and the rest of the day looks the same. If we wake him up from his nap earlier, he is a MESS, and I'm no good for getting him out of the house especially now in winter (we had 30 cm of snow yesterday...) I guess at daycare when they get him up there are so many other kids around that he holds back his meltdown, or he's just used to the routine of being woken up.

He tends to wake a little earlier on Sunday, maybe because he is caught up.  This past weekend, though, he was up until 8:30 on Saturday night for a holiday party, and still up at 6:15 so I KNOW he was tired.
Overtired, maybe?  That might explain yesterday, but not sure about his other no-nap days or if/when he's having no naps at daycare.

I don't think he's ready to give it up but I was completely emotionally unprepared for yesterday's events and pretty tired myself after 2 hours of in and out of his room, reading him books and trying to get him to wind down.  I hear of all these other couples spending time together in the evening but I just can't find the energy...We alternate nights of doing bedtime, I did last night and by the time you get out of his room it's 7:30 and my eyes were drooping at 8:15. I wake at approx. 5:30 am myself, whether ds is up or not, or whether it's the weekend, regardless of what time I went to bed (I'm like a BW baby myself!!!) I also tend to have night wakings and difficulty going back to sleep, which is why I'm dragging by 9 pm if I can even make it that long. I sometimes take an herbal sleep aid, but I don't want to take it all the time, and don't take it now that we are ttc #2......... So I guess there are a lot of factors at play here.

DH says when he does drop his nap, which neither of us think he's completely ready to do, then we'll just have to "make him" play more on his own.  But I can't relax and focus on spending time with dh when ds is screaming "Mommy, come look at..." or "Mommy, come play!" I put him off enough during the day just to do trivial things like unload the dishwasher or feed the dogs or go to the bathroom, much less doing it so dh and I can sit and talk.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. We are traveling the first half of next week, so the holidays are going to probably completely throw things out of whack for a while. Then he is home with us for a week, and I'm wondering if we should limit his nap and wake him up after a certain amount of time?

Your advice is IMMEASURABLE! I really hope we can keep things together for at least a little while longer.
Deb

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Hi Marisa's mom. Well Gage will not even take a nap now, but I plan to shorten his nap as soon as we can even things out. He passed out at 7pm and was up from midnight to 4am. I am now trying to put him to bed at 5hrs and he will not have any of it.  I just don't know what to do. I think he is playing us.

[Layla]

Gage's mum - did you go for the big bed because he was climbing out? Have you tried a gate at the door at all? There was another thread by Kirsty, which I think you are already a part of & Twomummies suggested that they go back in increments but if she's distressed they go back straight away... thought that would be a good idea. What about gradual withdrawal where you stay with him & then move towards the door?

I would probably try cutting the nap to 1.25hrs to start with. Isabella would go to sleep within 5.5hrs A time so 6hrs might be too long. I don't think you can change form 6hrs A time to 5hrs A time in a few days.... you might have to bring bedtime forward in increments... like 15mins sooner rather than 30 or more mins sooner.

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Hi there! Well another no nap day  . I did put up a gate and he stayed in his room playing after about 20mins of a tantrum. Checking in on him periodically seemed to full his fire, and he seemed to do a  lot better working his tantrum out himself. Then for the remainder of the nap he played happily. The idea seemed to work better than the other things I have tried. If bedtime becomes an issue than I will do the same, but take out some toys. I love my bub, but it is time for a little more fimness. We'll see what happens. Thanks for your help.

[*Natasha*]

Is their a reason why you took one side of the cot off?

[Layla]

Is their a reason why you took one side of the cot off?

my thoughts too.... was there any particular reason you wanted to make the transition now? Isabella is still in her cot & although she can get one leg over she has not tried the other & I really do think that the older they are the more they can understand and the easier the transition will be (or so I think )

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

He was trying to climb out of his crib and kept falling out. It is a crib that is made to turn into a toddler bed.

[Layla]

Have you tried staying with him until he falls asleep & if he starts playing up you could say something like "if you're going to play around I am leaving"... would that work?