4 m.o. NW hunger or habit?

[flemmg2]

Thanks for your thoughts momofclaire,

Our routine currently is:

7:00am - Wake and Eat
7:30-9:00am - Activity (Struggling really hard to kept him up until 9am, sometimes goes for nap early anywhere between 8:30am-9am)
9:00am - 11:00am - Sleep (Usually wakes at the 45min mark and have to shh back to sleep, if won't go back to sleep sometimes we have Activity time before the next feed as well as after the next feed which makes for a really long wake time between naps)
11:00am - Eat
11:30-1:00pm - Activity
1:00-3:00pm - Sleep (Usually wakes at the 45 min mark and have to shh back to sleep)
3:00pm - Eat
3:30-5:00 - Activity
5:00pm - Eat
5:30pm - 6:00 or 6:15pm - Nap
6:15-7:00pm - Activity
7:00pm - Eat
7:30pm - Bath, Sleep
11:00pm - DF


As my doctor said I could start rice cerel, I had been putting some in at 8:00am and 4:00pm.  Kohen showed interest the first few days and seemed to enjoy it, but over the last couple really got angry when offered so I didn't push it.  Also, he seemed a bit constipated, so I am not going to give him any today and see how it goes for a couple of days without it.

Do you think that the DF should be moved up earlier than 11pm?  I am just worried that he might not be able to make until 7am if the DF is earlier.  From your experience does moving it up an hour make a big difference for the baby during the overnight hours?

For the w2s method, at what point should I go in to stir him during a nap time?  Would it be about 20mins after he has gone to sleep if he is normally waking after 40-45mins?

Follow up to my custer feed question, if I put him to sleep at 5pm and feed at 5:45pm and then again at 7pm, I am worried if he would take the full feed due it it only be 1hr and 15mins between feeds.  Or do you think I should move up the nap time to say 4:30pm and feed at 5:15pm and just keep awake until 7pm.  So confused about this one.

Thanks in advance for all your help, I really really appreciate it.

[Jennerific]

i think the nap past 6pm & the late bedtime are your culprit. if you move the nap back to 5:30 & the bedtime to 7 you will probably get longer morning A time out of him. at least thats how it worked with us (we had the same problem, was doing the nap past 6pm & the 7:30 bedtime too, now that nap is 5, bedtime is 7 i get 2 hours morning A time, my LO is 4 months) cheers!

[brenda2]

hi
thanks a lot, i will certainly give it a really good try today with the schedule to see if it makes a difference.  looking it over...there's a 2 1/2 A time between 2:30 and 5 catnap, but maybe by that time of day she'll be able to handle more A time.  she has occasionally in the past been up that long.

if she wakes up after 45 minutes and is happy what do i do?  just adjust the next nap so it's 1 1/2 hours after she gets up?  that's what i've been doing.

i think she has been having her growth spurt this week, so i hope that's what this is all about.  she WAS a GREAT sleeper!  how long should it last?  i thought she was just mixed up because of christmas and travelling etc so maybe i didn't catch on quick enough that it was actually a growth spurt.

last night was not great but it did have some successes, but i think i got less sleep.    this is what happened:
7:30 bed (a lot of trouble going to sleep (no crying, it just took her a while), which is unusual for her - usually she goes right down)
8:15 woke up...shh shh and a little break was back asleep by 8:45
10:00 woke up and i fed her (df time anyway)
12:30 woke up shh shh only 5 minutes to back asleep (no pu/pd - which is an improvement)
2:30 - squealed and woke us up but did not wake up herself which is an improvement
3:40 woke and i fed her but had a bit of trouble going back down
5:40 woke up...shh shh only 15 minutes to back asleep (no pu/pd, again this was better)
7:45 up for the day and actually happy, not screaming for food

she looked tired at 8:50, so is now asleep at 9:10 and we'll see how it goes.

thanks for your interest and i'll let you know how we get on today 

[brenda2]

flemmg2 it certainly sounds like our LOs are similar!

i have been going in at the 25 minute mark during naps to do the w2s (she also wakes up after 45minutes) and then this morning i also went in at the 35 minute mark to put pressure on the joints to get her through the jolts.  she slept 1 hr 45 minutes, so not sure if that worked or just coincidence.

i think the late nap in the afternoon is affecting her sleep too, maybe i'll try earlier nap today and earlier bed.

[flemmg2]

Hi Brenda,

It does seem that way.  : )  I had only ever tried the w2s once before during the overnight hours and never for naps as I didn't know when to actually go in and try it.  I am going to try it tomorrow now that I know it would be around the 25-30 min mark.  Hopefully he doesn't wake at 30 mins though as he did this morning.  The only downfall (which is a selfish one on my part) is that I am not looking forward to doing the w2s during the morning nap as that is when I get my nap in as well.....oh well the joys of parenthood. 

I will let you know how it goes.   : )

I am still confused about the cluster feeding though given the schedule I have him on, do you have any thoughts...are you doing any cluster feeding?

How did the DF go for you at the earlier time.  I am thinking of moving mine to 10pm instead of 11pm but a little scared to do so.  : )

[flemmg2]

Thanks Fawndoe...

I will try moving the feeds up a bit by putting a feed at 3pm, then again at 4:45pm, nap at 5:15pm (so that it will be over by 6pm) and then another feed at just before 7pm.  Probably start the last feed around 6:50pm so that it is over, bath done and in bed by 7:30pm.  Wish I could do the feed earlier than 6:50pm like 6:30pm, but there is such a small amount of time during those last 3 feeds.  If I could get rid of one of them, that would be the best but when I tried he ended up waking up at night hungry.  I would rather keep him to not waking at night for feedings so I am trying to keep the extra feed in.  Any suggestions would be awesome concerning this cluster feeding.

Thanks again  : )

[brenda2]

you could do the bath first and then the feed right before bed, that would give a bit more time between the last feeds.  my LO has always fed close together before bedtime but we are a bit mixed up with the trying to switch  to a 4 hour EASY and i haven't figured out the best way to swing things now.  our dream feed has always been at 10 because i can't stay up later, but she has also always woken once at night for a feed which i was fine with...(not fine with the multiple wakings!)

good luck

[Jennerific]

flemm can i ask why you're clustering? does he still need it?

[flemmg2]

He never use to cluster on a 3 hr schedule, but in moving to the 4 hour he missed the additional feeding that comes with a 3 or 3.5 hr easy.  Any suggestions on how to handle the missing feed?

[Jennerific]

i'm really not sure, from reading the books it seems that the goal of the 4 hour easy was to drop a feed altogether... can you try to feed him more during each feed? will he take both breasts now?

[flemmg2]

He is bottle feed and usually takes 7oz per feed.  I tried increasing it to 8oz to make up for the diff but he wouldn't take the extra which left me so confused on what to do.

[momofclaire]

Generally when you go to a four hour easy one feed is dropped and the other feeds get larger.  I would offer 8 oz each feed and let him take what he wants.  I would try to drop on of your cluster feeds and see if he takes more before bed. I wouldn't feed at 5 but instead do bath and then feed at about 6:30 and aim for being in bed at 7:00.

[Jennerific]

see i would do it backwards from momofclaire & feed, bath, then bed

so flem it would look like this

:00am - Wake and Eat
7:30-9:00am - Activity (Struggling really hard to kept him up until 9am, sometimes goes for nap early anywhere between 8:30am-9am)
9:00am - 11:00am - Sleep (Usually wakes at the 45min mark and have to shh back to sleep, if won't go back to sleep sometimes we have Activity time before the next feed as well as after the next feed which makes for a really long wake time between naps)
11:00am - Eat
11:30-1:00pm - Activity
1:00-3:00pm - Sleep (Usually wakes at the 45 min mark and have to shh back to sleep)
3:00pm - Eat
3:30-5:00 - Activity

5:00pm - sleep
5:30 or 5:45 - activity
6:30 - eat
7 - bath & wind down
7:30 sleep
10 or 10:30pm - DF

does that look do-able? the only reason i did it this way was b/c you are used to E, Bath, S instead of bath, eat, sleep

[flemmg2]

I would have to agree fawndoe as last night I tried the bath before the 6:30pm feed and put him to bed at 7pm...he ended up waking after 1 1/2hrs at just before 9pm which he hasn't done in forever.  I had to shh him back to sleep to do his df later.

I am going to stick with the 4hr today again and put the last feed at 6:30pm with a bath right afterwards and then bed by 7:30pm.  Wish me luck.  Hopefully no NW either as I got one last night at 4pm 

Thanks for all the advice.

[momofclaire]

Whatever works for you is what you should stick with for sure.  My spirited Claire seemed to always get a second wind after a bath and was unable to settle shortly after which is why we always did bath a bit earlier.  Some babies find baths relaxing, mine found it very stimulating.

I am glad things are settling down a bit.