Is she trying to drop the catnap - should I cut it out?

[lilmonkey]

Welcome Fiona!  Always glad to have another mom to toss ideas around. 

V was so grouach after the short pm nap that I had to give the catnap.  Again I woke him after 30 min.  No ew today but he did have a crib party from 3-4:30 am.  I had to go in and rescue him as he rolled himself in a corner and wanted to be rescued.  Someone told me that I should bite the bullet and just offer 2 naps at fixed times and correct the nap lengths as I go along.  What do you think?

[mommy2mason]

Welcome Fiona! Your lo is right around the same age is ours.
I think we have officially dropped the catnap. I really didn't think it'd be this early, but things seem to be going well. Now his A time seems so long that I'm trying to find more things to do with him! I can't wait until it's nice outside!

My lo never refused his catnap...he just didn't get tired enough for it until too close to bedtime. I started to increase his morning A time and he seems to be on a pretty good routine now. His A time is about 2hr 45min. now. Sometimes he wakes at 7am and other days it's 7:30am. Last night he went to bed at 7pm and I woke him this morning at 7:30. I don't know if I'll run into problems if his wake up time varies at 7 or 7:30. I'm not sure if I should be waking him every morning at 7 to maintain the 7-7 routine or not.

Anyways, my lo who used to be a chronic 45 minute napper now has 2 naps that are 1.5-2 hours each. His his rough routine the past few days:

E-7:30/wake
A-Activity/Solids 8:30
S-9:45-11:45 (I'm also trying to figure our his eating times since longer A times run into sleeping/eating times)

E-11:45
A-Activity/Solids 12:45
S-2:30-4:15ish

E-4:00
A-Activity/Solids 5:15
Bath @ 6:00
Bed @ 7/7:30

Fiona-Is your lo ready for more awake time do you think? When my lo has 45 minute naps that usually means he didn't have enough A time. Also, when he would take quite awhile to fall asleep, that meant he needed more A time too. I really didn't think my lo could have this long of A time, but after a couple times of experimenting with it, I think it's just what he needed. The first day or two he sometimes woke in his nap at the 30 min. mark and would sometimes fall back asleep or sometimes not. He's seems to be getting more consistent now.

Hope the rest of you are doing well!

[lilmonkey]

Way to go Amy.  Did you have to intervene for the nap to lengthen or did you just let him be?

[mommy2mason]

Thanks Mimi! As for the 30min. naps, I would usually let him be...depending on what he sounded like! I can usually tell by his fussing if he's going to fall back asleep or not. Intervening never worked for him. When he would see me he'd get very wound up and would never go back to sleep. If he sounded like he wasn't going to fall back asleep, I would get him up and just go for there. It seemed to work itself out.
Hope you're having some success!

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

So glad to be here....not  
I purposely do a 45 min nap in the am to keep the pm one longer. Dont want ds to sleep past 3.30 or otherwise I spend all day in the house and it's not fair on dd. It's dark here by 5, and as she is on no nap needs her dinner by 6 or 6.30. He is usually pretty ready to go back for his am nap about 2 or 2.15 hours after wake up then other wake up times are longer. I too am kind of going by set naps, first one at 9.45 for 45 mins, then second one 1.15 for at least 2 hours if not 2.15.  So cos I woke him at 3.35 I did no cat nap. He did really well but by 6.30ish was starting to get cranky, had him in bed by 7.30 on the dot and he passed out, woke now briefly but cos sil had to go in his room to get something, he is back asleep but she has to go back in   They are temporarily sharing a room for at least the next 3 weeks. Tooth number 2 is practically through too so all in all he is not doing too bad.
The schedule I am now aiming for is
7.30 Awake
9.45 Nap 45 min
10.30 A
13.00 or 13.15 Nap 2 hours or 2 hours 15 which would be better ( will adjust bedtime accordingly once we settle into new routine, think might take few days.
15.30 A
19.30 Bed
He is extremely active and crawls all over the place so need to keep an eye on him, think it might even be every 2 days no catnap depending on how his naps are.
Yeah feeding schedule is all out of whack now. But he is refusing his afternoon bottle and his pm bottle ( teeth I presume) so at least he is eating a lot of solids in the evening which gets him through.
Its so weird cos dd did from about 2.30 pm until at least 7.30 if not 8 pm at this age. I felt so sorry for him this evening.
On the other hand I decided to put dd to bed at 7.30 too and wouldnt you know it tonight she played hell  
Amy I am hoping I have to wake him   I used to have to wake him at 8 a few months ago. But more so I want the crib parties to stop, I dont have to get up to him but am still awake listening to it and I never get back to sleep properly.
Oh and intervening never works for me, he sees me it's play time :-)

[pbmom]

Welcome Fiona!

Amy - well done and can you come over here and fix us - LOL.  Well, B seemed to be doing every other day no catnap.  But, now we are all weird and A time seems to have dropped back a bit.  I feel like I was just getting in a groove and then those darn shots.  She had a bunch of short naps (18-34min each UGH!), but the last couple days has seemed to want less A time.  Yesterday when I pushed it in the morning I ended up with a 34 min nap.  OT right?  And it ruined the whole day as we were done with 2 long naps by 1pm.  Eeeeek! 

I would kill for both of your later wakeups.  We are waking b/w 6-6:30 with 7/7:30 bedtime.  If I ever get 7am, which has happened a few times, I wonder if she's okay in there!  A time is looking more like 2.5hrs (not including WD).  I had been pushing it to 3hrs as it seemed to work wonders a few times, but then the short naps began.

So, last night she had a catnap and was asleep by 7:15pm.  Eoke up today at 6, fell back out until 6:25.  She usually sticks to 11hrs at night. 

Amy - when you moved to a longer A time did you do it in intervals and if so, did you still try to get a catnap on those days if naps were shorter?  Did they really just go from 45min to 1.5/2hrs just like that? 

I think no catnap is the answer for us as she seems to have a set amnt of sleep that she needs and that's it.  Once she's gotten it, she's up (cranky or not).  Just not sure how to get there when yesterday both naps ended so early as the a.m. one was crap.

Oh, and Fiona - like you, when B sees me there is no going back to sleep!  Cheeky lo's!

[mommy2mason]

Robyn-
I hear you about those shots! Mason has to get his 2nd flu shot this Friday so I'm curious to see if he acts like he did last time..though I'm not looking forward to it if he does! I wonder why B's awake time dropped a bit? When I increased A time, I gave him about 15 minutes more and stuck with it for a few days.  Even if he rubbed his eyes early I kept with it for a few days and it seemed to work and got used to it. For the last half hour before nap we usually go into his bedroom and lay on the bed and I either read books to him or he likes to inspect all his stuffed animals. He's amazed by the tags! I just keep it very low-key.
I don't remember exactly...but if he was up from his 2nd nap before 2:30 I would give him a catnap. There were several days where he would have too long of A time before bed, because we skipped his catnap. I felt so bad because he was so OT but I didn't know what else to do. Those nights he was asleep around 6:15-6:30pm.
His naps really have improved without the catnap. He had been a 45 minute napper from about 2-5.5months. At 5.5 months he started giving me random naps anywhere from 30min-2hours, though it was frustrating because I never knew what he was going to give me! This morning he slept for 1hr. 20min., which is shorter than yesterday so we'll see how this afternoon goes. He's getting his 5th tooth now and refused his 2nd bottle today too!
I guess if you haven't tried increasing morning A time by 15 minutes I would maybe try that and give it a few days. Hope that all makes sense!

Fiona-Wow, your lo is crawling all over the place! Mason't not quite there yet but I've been trying to practice with him! It sounds like your lo is gearing towards 2 naps but seems to be doing pretty well with it! Ohh those poor teeth! Mason is getting his 5th one now and refused his 2nd bottle today. He's never refused one before either so I'm not sure what to do. I could only get an ounce in him.

Sorry...dh's calling. I'll check in later!

[pbmom]

Hmmm...Amy - refusing the bottle.  Never experienced that with my older one as she didn't get any teeth until she was 10 mos and solids were going really well for her then.  Teeth never phased her though.  B is fussy about her bottles all the time as she's so nosy and it drives me nuts!  I did increase A time in small increments up until a 3 hr A time and it worked great at 3 hrs for a few days, but then I kept getting 30 min naps, then some 18 min naps.  So we backed it up to cues to see what time she was ready on her own and it seems to be earlier.  Naps are usually then 1hr15-1hr30min.  Then we need a catnap though.  Ah well, I'll wait a week or two and see if I can push it again.  I hate to push her if she's not ready, but 2 naps would be so much easier on the routine with 2 kids and dinnertime, etc.   

[mommy2mason]

Robyn-I think your 1hr15-1hr30min. naps sound great...even if you do still need the catnap! I really thought it was normal to get rid of the catnap around 6 months, but the more I read about it, the more I see babies keeping it up until 9 months! I know it will mess with bedtime a bit, but like you said, give it a couple weeks and see what happens. I think the best we can do is watch their cues.

Well check in again if you try it out again in a couple weeks! I'll let you know how things went on our end and if we ran into any issues...which I'm sure we will! Seems like there's always something!

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

So update for today. No catnap yesterday, bed 7.30. Awake for his usual chat at 5.10 for about 20 mins, thought he wouldn't, thought cat nap was affecting this.
7.35 up
9.45 nap-50 mins, I woke him so up 10.35 ish
13.15 Nap, 1.5 hours instead of 2......... not long enough so had to do catnap
17.00 ish bed fell asleep 17.20 and I woke him at 17.45
19.50 Usual bedtime.
I would love to drop this nap.......but guess he is too active. Would also love to get rid of the early morning wake up for a song or chat as I never get back to sleep properly.
Wonder what tomorrow will bring

[pbmom]

Fiona - I wonder what the chatting early a.m. is about?  B does this sometimes and sometimes not - can't find any consistency.  I know they say EW = OT, but she goes back to sleep and sounds like your lo does too.  Hmmmm.  Can I ask why you wake from nap #1 - are you trying to overlap p.m. nap with your other child's nap?  I ask as I had this for a bit (45min a.m. and LONG p.m.) and it all went to hell!

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

Yes dd used to do the early chatting too but not as consistently as ds, she just did it every now and then he does it every day. Am waking from am nap to preserve pm nap. otherwise I cant get out of the house with dd. If ds sleeps after 3.30 pm or for an hour and half in the am then I am stuck at home and so is dd.  Cos she is on no nap but is tired easily it's hard to work both schedules and of course she is better in the am. The long pm nap also allows me to lunch with her and do quiet time with a dvd which she really needs.
Dd did really well with the short am long pm. I know no 2 children are the same but we need to get out daily and dd will be back in preschool soon which is from 8 to 12 so his long pm nap would be good. But he is so active he is wearing himself out, he is commando crawling all overthe place and wont stay still for one second. But I so want the early chat to stop. thought no cat nap would solve it cos the first day he refuse the cat nap he didnt waken early am. Guess I am lucky I dont have to intervene, just am tired as I dont go back to sleep, my biggest prob

[pbmom]

Ahhh, I get it.  Your 3 yr old must be tired and I hear you on needing the down time together.  With our napping the way it is now I find I don't get out with them (if at all) until after P wakes from her nap - so 4:00ish.  It's crazy, but the weather is cold anyway so I don't mind.  Though me and the 2 yr old do go stir crazy every now and again.  I wish that short nap and long pm nap would work for us, but it doesn't.  bohoo. 

I agree that the early chatting is annoying...I really shouldn't complain as I never have to intervene either but I can't go back to sleep - I just lay there listening to her party and then get maybe 10 more min and it's time to get up!

HI AMY!!  I see you lurking...

[mommy2mason]

You caught me!

Oh man...hearing you guys talk about having your lo and a toddler running around make me nervous for when I have another! Does it make the day go by faster...or slower?!

Sounds like things are going ok...besides the morning crib parties!

We're still doing ok. I had to wake ds yesterday morning at 7:30am. He had his normal A time of 2h 45m. but each nap was only about 1hr 20m. He woke from his last one at 3:45pm but was totally tired by 5 and was in bed at 6:30pm. Therefore...he woke at 6:30am this morning. So we're pushed ahead again today. First nap was 1hr 15m. and he just went down at 1:15pm so we'll see how it goes. I guess it's just kind of a transitional phase. I'm hoping I won't have to give him a catnap. So..it's either no catnap and bed by 6:30, or catnap and bed at 8?!
I'm trying not to worry about it so much...I just think about how lucky I am that he sleeps great at night and is a happy baby! I was just looking in my baby book from when I was a baby and I went to bed at 10pm and up at 8am with one nap. How did my mom do it?!

[lilmonkey]

Hello all,

I agree with the early morning chatting.  DS does it too and I can't seem to find a pattern to it.  He does it no matter how well his naps are or if he has or doesn't have a catnap.  I wonder if it is just a phase that babies goes through.  I just wish that I can tune him out and go back to sleep.  Lately my days start at 4:30/5.  Sometimes it isn't that bad as I go on here with my cup of java and chill out while listening to ds chat away.   

Amy, tbh having two is hard because you are trying to juggle the needs of two different individuals but once you have mindset that you can't please everyone (and the older child pretty much independent) then it is easier. 

Fiona, dd gets pretty restless too if she inside all day on the non school days.  I just glad that she enjoys grocery shopping as that is often our excursion for the day.

Robyn, must be nice to have both napping in the afternoon.  On the rare occasion dd would nap for me and then I don't know what to with the free time.  I try not to tell dh this as I want him to think that he owe me BIG time for raising his two kids!