5 Month old 40 minute napper, need help with action plan!!

[rachsenior]

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone has any ideas about the cause of my DS #2 short naps. Background info, He will be 5 months old next week and is breast fed. (I also have a 2 year old running around too) We have just started on solid foods as his weight was dropping off and he seemed to be increasing the duration of his feeds. He has a very laid back temprement and rarely cries in the day, only when I try and get him to get back to sleep after he wakes from his short naps!!!

He has been on a 3 hour EASY since birth. Although not great at naps since then they have got progressively shorter and now are 40-45 minutes. To get him through to bedtime I try and get in 4 of them so that he's not too tired, he's much more likely to nod off during his feed than have an OT meltdown if he doesn't get enough sleep.

Our routine is

E. 7.45 bf followed by solids at 8.30
A  Getting dressed, kick around in room, swaddle, dim lights
S. 9/9.30 (usually 1 1/2 hrs after woken) for 40 minutes

E. 10.45 bf followed by solids at 11.30
A. KIcking around on mat,swaddle, dim lights
S. 12/12.30 ish (usually 1 1/2 hrs after woken) for 40 minutes

E. 1.45 bf
A. Kicking around on mat, swaddle, dim lights
S. 2/2.30 ish (usually 1 1/2 hrs after woken) for 40 minutes

E. 4.15 bf
A. kicking around on mat, swaddle, dim lights
S. 4.30/5 ish for about 20 mins - half a hour. I'll wake him if it gets to 5.30
A Bath at 6.30
E. 6.45 bf followed by a bottle of 7oz
S. Sawddled bed, asleep between 7.30-8

He then tends to sleep till the morning with no dream feed ( we tried but he either wouldn't wake up for it or it just seemed to make him wake up 3 hours later so we just stopped it and he started sleeping through)

My questions really are just to know if

a) Should I change anything if he sleeps so well at night?
b) I can't push him to a 4 hour easy because of his poor naps or does he need all these feeds because he doesn't have a dream feed?
c) which nap is best to start trying to lengthen ( i have used ssh pat and /PU/PD more recently but I have never got him back to sleep again and he just gets more and more upset) I was thinking of giving W2S a go.

Any advice would be greatly recieved as I know he is still tired and only because of his good nature does he not scream!

Thanks in advance
Rachel

[deckchariot]

Rachel - generally 45 min naps actually mean that your lo is undertired.  And looking at his A time, I'm guessing that's exactly what it is.  I know it seems backwards, but keeping him up longer may actually help him sleep better and longer.  At 5 months, he really should be able to handle 2 hrs of A time (maybe even 2 hr 15 min).  So I would suggest trying to extend his A time, just by 15 min at a time.  So instead of putting him down after 1 1/2 hrs, try putting him down after 1 hr 45 min for a couple days, then after 2 hrs.  That will move you towards the 4 hr EASY.  His bad naps may actually be an indication that he needs to move to a 4 hr EASY, and even without the df, you could try to cluster feed at bedtime to get an extra feed in if you want - so feeding at 7:45, 11:30, 3:15, 5:30, 7:30(bedtime) or aiming for something similar, so that you'd still get 5 bf in each day. 

HTH
michelle

[rachsenior]

Thanks for replying so quickly. I have been thinking the same thing and I have tried keepinh him up longer but he then slept for only 30 mins. To be honest I only did this once and I went straight for 2 hours and he is quite a light sleeper so it could have been anything else that woke him! So I will try tomorrow, DS #1 at nursery so much easier to spend more quiet time with DS#2!!
Thanks again and i'll keep you posted if thats ok

Rachel

[rachsenior]

Hi again,

Just thought i'd let you know what happened today.

E. 7.30 bf solids at 8 15
A. get dressed, taking DS#1 to nursery, quiet time in room
S. 9.15 - 10.05 (55 mins yay! I then used PU/PD and he went back to sleep till 11.15

E. 11.15 bf solids at 12
A. Walked the dog in sling
S. 1.05 - 2.00 (55 mins again then used PU/PD to try and extend but wide awake and wanting to play!)

E. 2.45 bf
A.
S. 4.15 - 5 I woke him from this nap

E.5 bf
A. bath etc
E. 7 bf then bottle
S. 7.30 ( took a little while to go to sleep as quite awake!)

I feel that this is progress as he slept by himself for a little longer and i've never been able to get him to go back to sleep again with PU/PD either so i guess he was tireder. I wonder if he then wasn't tired enough for his next nap as he'd slept better in the morning. I'm assuming that it doesn't just happen overnight! So i'll gradually continue to increase his awake time? Is this how it tends to go, just a gradual increase and bit by bit the naps lengthen?

Thanks again

[deckchariot]

I'd definitely say this is progress!!!  Well done!  It doesn't just happen overnight, little by little, you increase the A time, and the naps lengthen.  It's a bit like finding that magic number of A time, and then you'll be in a good spot for a few weeks, then short naps come back and you think "hey, maybe I can extend A time again".  Of course for me, it was always after 3 or 4 days of bad naps that I'd finally think about extending her A time.....

It looks like you're doing great!!!

[rachsenior]

Hi again,

I thought i'd give things a week to see how they progress and we are still having trouble with short naps! and I was just wondering where to go from here?

He can now stay awake a little longer and will go down for his naps with no problems at all not even a whimper but when it hits 45 minutes he wakes up. For his morning nap he wakes up happy just cooing in his cot but for his afternoon nap he wakes up crying and sometimes I can here him trying to put himself back to sleep with his thumb but he just can't do it.

Our routine looks something like this now

E. 7.30 bf followed by solids at 8.30
A.
S. 9.15 - 10.00 (sometimes does an hour)
A

E 11. 00 followed by solids at 11.30
A
S.12.00 till ?? this varies he will always wake after 45 mins (except today it would seem!) and I then try and get him back to sleep using PU till he's calm then PD sometimes he needs to be awake for 20 mins or so and then goes back to sleep again for 45mins. Generally awake by 2/2.15
A

E 2.45
A
S 3.45-4.15/4.30 (in buggy whilst we walk the dog)

E. 6.45
S 7 15

He then seems to sleep well at night. I sometimes here him chatting to himself but he can put himself back to sleep again at night or early morning by sucking his thumb.

I'm happy to keep going with this routine as he still sleeps at night! I just wondered if there was anymore tweaking to do? Do you think I need to keep trying to increase his A times? I feel pleased we are nearer a 4 hour EASY but because of increased A times and no increase in sleep time he is much more tired by the end of the day. It's not impacting on night sleep at present but i'm worried it might? Should I try W2S? I'm hoping it's a bit developmental and as we get nearer 6 months it'll improve, any other suggestions would be appreciated. I've realised how lucky I was with DS#1's long naps it's tough to get anything done in 45 mins!!

Many thanks for your time
Rachel

[deckchariot]

It does look like you've made some progress, so that's great!!!  When will he be six months?  I might try pushing his A time a bit further, especially in the morning.  Do you think he could go til 9:30?  I think if you could get that first nap a bit longer, he might be fine during the other naps.  So that's the first thing I would try is lengthening that first A time just 15 min. 

If that doesn't make any difference, I would try w2s - when I did w2s, it took me awhile to get the timing right, and I kept it up for 2 weeks, but it did work eventually.  Just to let you know that it's not an instant fix.  Also, if you cannot extend his first nap (and I try with either w2s or pu/pd and pat/shh for maybe 30 min, no more), then go ahead and get him up and keep low key A time til the next feed, but then I wouldn't keep him up any more than 30-45 min after he's done eating.  You'll want to shorten that next A time, or he'll just get more and more OT as the day goes on.

Then enjoy the night and start again in the morning!  You're doing great!!!

HTH
michelle