wind down trouble

[dairymom]

My 14 week old little boy cries each time I start to do wind down for naps.  I usually walk him around when I see he's getting tired.  He immediately starts crying bc he knows he's going down soon.  I have even rocked him hoping to calm him down instead, and still he anticipates the nap and will cry.  Is this normal?  If not, what can I do?  I hate that he gets all worked up just thinking about the nap.  Also, when I first put him down, he cries a little before going to sleep.  Thanks, Heather

[jen.sue.g]

My 5 week old gets himself so worked up that he just can't go to sleep.  This happens occasionally during the day, but mostly at night.  Most nights he is awake from around 7 o clock pm to around 12 or even 1 o clock with only very short naps (when someone is holding him or shoving his binkie in his mouth every 10 mn.) the naps only last like 10 mn to occasionally 1 hr.  Most of the time he is just fussy fussy, not crying, just fussy.  But if we put him alone in his crib he just cries and cries.  I don't understand how I can teach him to self soothe, but not to let him "cry it out" at the same time.  And I keep thinking that maybe the problem is I keep him awake too much during the day and so he is exausted, but I am just trying to follow the EASY.  I'm getting to the point where I don't want to wake him up at all because I just want him to be able to sleep.  HELP! what should I do?

[marensmama]

Dairymom, my LO is about the same age as yours... Right now she can only handle a very short wind-down, just being swaddled and one short lullaby and she's ready to be laid down.  If I carry on for much more than that, she cries a fair bit, being overstimulated when she's tired.  I wonder if it's the same for your DS?  I don't know that at this age they have the capacity to anticipate much, let alone get worked up thinking about the nap.

I would try starting the wind-down at the first tired cue, and keeping the wind-down very short and see if that helps.

HTH!

[Maffoos mummy]

Hi,I agree with marensmama,you could try getting him into his cot a little earlier and see if that helps? With ds we had to watch cues very very closely as he'd go from happy-meltdown so quickly if he got tired. And actually for a long time he'd have a little cry going to sleep. As long as you're not actually leaving him to cry it out and are there to comfort him IMO that's ok,it's just the way some babies go to sleep (although my ds also had pretty severe reflux so did cry an awful lot of the day anyway). Does he sleep well when he does nod off? Let us know how you get on!

[dairymom]

Thanks for your advice.  I will try a shorter wind down, maybe I am overstimulating him by singing/rocking/walking for 10 min.  I will let you all know how it goes!  He usually sleeps for 45 min. once he goes to sleep.  Up until 2 wks. ago, I had never heard of EASY, so this is all new to me.  We are on day 8 trying it out.  I finished the book last night.  I'm hoping I get better with the napping thing fast; I hate hearing him start crying as soon as I start rocking/singing/walking him!  It's very frustrating!  And it has to be no fun at all for him! 

[dairymom]

I forgot to ask: what is the difference btwn crying it out and just settling down?  Do you ever let them cry or cry a little, or for how long?  Do you ever say "just forget this nap" and pick them up and start all over with the routine?  Heather

[marensmama]

Crying it out means that you leave the room while baby is crying and let them sort it out for themselves.  Unfortunately, you're not teaching them to self-soothe, you're teaching them that their efforts at communication don't work.  BW methods are based on helping give your child the tools to soothe themselves, meaning that you are there with him to show him the way and reassure him of your presence and trust.  I think the most important thing is to be able to tell what your baby is saying with the cries.  I never leave my dd to cry, but I may alter what I do depending on what the cry sounds like.  For example, if it's just a tired cry that has a trailing of sound at the end of each 'waaaaa', then I know that she just needs to fall asleep and putting her down for the nap is all that she needs. If she sounds uncomfortable, then maybe the swaddle blanket is bunched up underneath her or her diaper is wet/dirty.  Once her needs are met then she'll nap.  Some babies have a mantra cry that is their way of self-soothing, and it's a cry that doesn't escalate but has a distinct rhythm to it.  I believe it's OK to leave them, but I don't know because neither of my DDs ever did that.

 I don't generally skip a nap, but if you're trying a sleep train method and it's taken so long that you've come up to the next feeding time, I think you're supposed to give up on the nap and start EASY again but with less A time.  Again, that hasn't been my experience, so I'd double check that.

HTH!

[dairymom]

Well, after 25 minutes, he was still crying during this nap despite my best ssh/pat efforts.  Each time he'd close his eyes and quit crying, I'd stop and he'd start crying again.  Finally I just picked him up and fed him bc I couldn't decide if his cries were hungry or overtired (he didn't eat much at the previous feeding).  He ate on one side and was out of it.  I just burped him and put him back down.  He is stirring some right now, but I think he's going to go on to sleep.  What should I have done instead?  I was planning on feeding him, then trying a little A time, like you suggested, but he was out.  I hated to wake him just to get him more overstimulated and then try to put him back down.  I hope I haven't started a bad habit here!  Heather

[marensmama]

A hungry cry is one that escalates.  In other words, if he's hungry, he probably won't start and stop, the crying will intensify, and if it had been less than three hours since his previous feed, he was likely not hungry, especially since he fell asleep while on the breast.  Since he was obviously overtired, I wouldn't have woken him after the feed either.  Instead I would just try again once he wakes up from this nap.  I'd give him some A time until it's feeding time again, then feed, then some more A time and then sleep for the three hour cycle.  I'm not an expert though, so if anyone else has different ideas, feel free to step in!  And don't be too hard on yourself and worry about starting a bad habit.  The nice thing about babies is that they always give you more opportunities to get it right!

I would try to think about why he couldn't settle with the shh/pat after 25 minutes.  Maybe you needed to do it for longer once he quit crying and then taper it off in terms of volume of shh and frequency of pat.  Maybe you need to modify the whole process to fit his needs.  I don't pat my babe, I just put my hand on her chest, because the patting seems to be too stimulating for her (possibly it upset her reflux).

How does he do at night?

[dairymom]

Last night worked out well for us.  He did sleep for 45 minutes, which is normal, especially for the evening.  Then he got up and ate, then A time until time for bed at 8:45.  I fed him and put him down, no troubles.  Then we were at my Mom's house so I had to wake him up to bring him home at about 11:00.  I went ahead and fed him then (like a df I'm guessing).  He slept until 6 this morning.  He does well at night but not for naps.  I'm trying to change his routine here and there to best suit him but I don't want to change it too much for fear of confusing him or upsetting him.  I've just put him down for his first nap of the day, we'll see how it goes!  Heather

[Maffoos mummy]

Hi again. It does sound like you're getting there,I agree in that situation I would have left him to sleep too. Re the shh pat not working, as he'd gone quiet in between I suspect he was maybe just too overtired to settle that time and was majorly resisting it. I only started implementing EASY with my ds at around this age and it did take quite a while and a bit of tweaking along the way to settle into. I'd stick with it,try the other suggestion of laying your hand on his chest too-I'd probably try each for one nap so whichever you're doing you stick with for that time as you'll be able to compare easier which worked best. The fact that he sleeps so well at night is a massive positive oint as he's obviously resettling himself through the night,and is able to sleep without you then,so as you say it's now just a case of tweaking the naps too. You're doing really well!!

[marensmama]

The only thing I'd change is maybe an earlier bedtime?  They should be in bed for about 12 hrs, whereas your ds was only in bed for 9.  That could be the cause of OT which would cause trouble settling for naps.  (That's what we're dealing with now too).  I'd aim to put him to bed 1/2 hr earlier tonight and then another 1/2 hr earlier tomorrow night and another 1/2 hr earlier the next night and see how that goes.

You're definitely on the right track, IMHO!

[dairymom]

Thank you guys so much for the feedback!  I really appreciate all your suggestions and am working on trying them out!  I am finding that I haven't been getting him down for his naps soon enough.  He's only up about 1 hr or maybe 1 hr 15 min. before I start seeing him yawn and rub his eyes.  As soon as I see this, I begin wind down and nap.  I think I'd been keeping him up for too long.  I've also taken your suggestion and started an earlier bedtime.  Last night he went to bed at 8 and got up twice (which is normal and which I am not working on right now) and then got up at 6:30, so he's getting a lot more sleep at night now.  Thanks so much, if you guys think of anything else I can do, please let me know!!  Heather

[marensmama]

Glad to hear it's helping, Heather!  You're doing a great job, your little guy is lucky to have such a wonderful Mommy!

[Maffoos mummy]

That's great well done!! Knowing and following the signs is so important as the sleep guidlines really are just that...guidelines. And getting too little sleep is definitely a much more common problem than getting too much!! I've found with my ds he's always been "behind" with his sleep,transitioning into the next phase (be it shorter naps,or dropping a nap etc) a little older than most children his age. And once you've got EASY established miraculously all these different cries appear...before that due to major OT everything sounded the same!!! Keep at it,well done!!