Habitual Wakings?

[Julie C]

Hi! Please help if you can...

Our textbook/spirited LO is 19 weeks old, and has always been a terrible sleeper -- for both naps and nightime.

She has always woken 2 times a night. We are currently trying a 3.5 EASY (after giving up on 4hr -- she was just too hungry), and the wakings are continuing. I'm starting to think the second waking is habit, since it's almost always at 5:30am. (The first waking is sometimes at 1:30, other times at 2:30...so I'm thinking she's actually hungry here)

I'd post a routine, but right now we're fighting 45 min naps and are just mostly following cues. I can tell you this...

*WAKE= sometimes at 6am; others at 7:30 (no idea why) -- I can usually get her to sleep until 7:30 if I work at it or bring her to bed with me
*FEEDS = about 3.5 hours apart (2.5 hours closer to bedtime)
*A TIME = usually around 1.5 hours to 1 hour and 45 mins
*NAPS = 45 mins, then wakes, but goes back to sleep (with sshhh/pat). Then wakes 1-2 more times until she gets back into a deep sleep. Regardless, we aim for 4-4.5 hours total a day.
*BEDTIME = between 7 and 8pm depending on her day/cues -- she also wakes after the 45 min mark here, and then 1-2 more times after until deep sleep

If the 5am is a "habit", what are the tricks to make it stop?
While we're at it...could the waking at the 45 min mark for naps be habit, too?

Julie

PS -- I've tried dreamfeed (=wakes at 1:30 and 5am)
PS -- I've tried no dreamfeed (=wakes at 12:30 and 5am) lol!
PS -- sometimes she wakes at 10:30pm before I get to dreamfeed her! (like right now...gotta go!)

[Mydreamcametrue]

Just a few questions:

1.)How much is she drinking during the day?
2.) How long did you try the dreamfeed?
3.) Do you cluster feed?
4.) How long is her A time before you put her down for a nap?

Most lo's at almost 5 mos. old cannot handle more than 1.5 to 2 hours MAX of awake time.  Also if she is bigger for her age, she may need to start solids.  I know they don't recommend it until 6 mos, but some are ready sooner.

So here is an example of an EASY routine at her age. 

Wake 7:00
Eat
Activity until 815/8:30
Wind down for nap
Sleep by 9:00 (at the latest)

Wake 10:00
Eat: 10:30
12:00 wind down for nap, asleep by 12:00 the latest.

Wake 1:30/2:00
Eat
Catnap 3:30/4:00 (1 hour)

Wake 4:30/5:00
Cluster feed
4:30/5:00
Bedtime routine
Feed again at 6:45/ Bed at 7:00

Hugs, Wendy

[Julie C]

She is EBF, so I'm not sure how much she's getting. Judging by what I pump, my guess is 4-6 oz x 5 or 6 feeds a day.

I tried the dreamfeed for about 1.5 months. I tried no dreamfeed for about 2 weeks. Now she is waking herself at 10:30 anyway (another habit, I wonder?)

Yes, we've been trying cluster feeding (which I think means feeding more frequently before betime, right? Today, for example she fed at 7:30, 11, 2:30, 5:45 and 7:15.)

Her A time is usually 1.5 hrs to 1.75 hours. Today she did go 2 hours at one point, but that's unusual.

We've been trying a teaspoon of cereal at suppertime for the past couple of days (Just to get her tummy ready.) She doesn't really seem ready in my opinion, since she is pushing it out with her tongue. DH wants to keep trying, though....

SHe's 14 pounds, so she's pretty small...It's a good thing she's so cute!

[rob1lu2]

Hi There!

I would say that it is super common for them to wake at 5. You could try Wake To Sleep at 4am to deflect that 5am wake up. Or 4:30 for a 5:30 wake up.

As for the 45 minute naps, that is classic for this age.

What do you do when she wakes? Is she able to get back to sleep fairly easily?

Let us know!
Lu

[Mydreamcametrue]

Sounds like you are doing everything right.  Does she seem like she is in pain when she wakes?

Have your tried doing a yield recently to see how much you are getting for sure?  Of couse she is probaly getting more than you actually pump.

Have you thought about pumping and bottle feeding at night?  Maybe she needs to comfort of mommy more than anything.  DH could also do the night feed, so she does not count on you to nurse her.
I am sure some others will be able to help.  

[Julie C]

Hmmm...funny you should suggest that. I just mentioned the idea of a bottle to DH about 15 mins ago. When she sleeps at Grandma's she sleeps 6+ hours no problem. She also screams sometimes if DH tries to comfort her. Maybe we're onto something here.

Lu, we used to go in and comfort her right away (mostly just popping in the paci and/or rubbing her.) This past whole week we've been waiting 5 mins. She can sometimes settle herself, but not always. The only time she doesn't go back to sleep easily is at 5am! (I guess that's why I'm trying to get rid of that waking so badly)

I think we'll try the bottle thing this week.

Thanks for all your help, ladies!

[rob1lu2]

I wouldn't be surprised if she smelled the milk on you - and you. Could be something indeed....

And I'm glad to hear you are giving her a chance to settle herself. I know one of my issues was that I never wanted to hear my girls cry. Inevitably that meant never giving them a chance to settle themselves. Now unless their cries escalate, I give them a chance to work it out, which is not the same as CIO. Just want to be clear on that.

You could certainly try W2S for that EW.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!
Lu

[Julie C]

I think I might actually try w2s tonight (it's a holiday here, so DH doesn't have to work and won't be disturbed by the noise). It has worked for us before to extend 45 min naps.

We wait for the "escalating cry" too (not just watching for the 5 min mark). She's pretty predictable...as soon as we hear "uh, uh" as opposed to "waohaohaoh", we know we're in trouble. lol.

THanks again; I'll keep you posted!

[rob1lu2]

 

I hate it when I know I'm in trouble!

Good luck!
Lu

[Julie C]

w2s didn't work last night. Should I keep trying it, do you think?

I think I might have messed up our routine a bit today, since I was so exhausted in the morning...she woke at 10:30, 2:30, 5:30, 6:15, 7:30am. At 7:30 I took her into our spare bedroom, fed her, and then slept with her until 8:30. Felt...sooooo....goooood!

TOday for a nap I tried PU/PD for the first time. OMG, was it ever horrible. I cried almost as hard as her, I think. It took 31 mins. The good news is, at bedtime, she was able to wake after 45 mins, and then put herself back to sleep.

We'll see how tonight goes. I hope I can get myself out of bed at 4am to do w2s!

[Mydreamcametrue]

I could never bring myself to the w2s.   I was going to try it with DS1 because he never was able to sleep through the night. 

I kept telling myself everynight though, well maybe this is the night he will sleep all night, so I never did the w2s.

I have heard it works, so I say deft. keep at it.

If your Dh is willing to get up with her for a few nights, I will think the bottle will work.

Good Luck and please keep us posted
Wendy

[rob1lu2]

I used W2S and it worked for me with both girls.

That said, if you are going to do it you want to do it for at least 3 nights in a row. Then on the 4th night see what happens.

I've done pu/pd and it's my least favorite thing. 31 minutes is a walk in the park! I've had to do it for over 90! Nightmare. I wear earplugs. It's the only way to go.

I love bringing them into bed and sleeping with them! I don't do it often b/c it's a slippery slope, but it's the most delicious thing!

Let us know how it goes!
Lu

[Mydreamcametrue]

How are things going?  Did you give the bottle a try?

[Julie C]

Sigh. I feel like a horrible mom.

The day I tried pu/pd for the first time really was terrible -- and for a good reason. She was getting a tooth! She's only 4.5 months old, so I never saw it coming.

We haven't tried to do any sleep training these past couple of days.  Right now she's getting a little Motrin, lots of cuddles, and pretty much whatever she wants. The night before last we even did a little co-sleeping (shhhhh!).

Today she seemed to be feeling better, but my brother "babysat" for us, so another night of no sleep training.

I think we'll have to start all over on Monday.