8 month old started EW and NW last week

[ElsMom]

My DD finally slept through the night about 2 months ago, and has since been doing pretty consistent with 7:00 pm to about 6:20 am.  Even on days when her naps aren't great, she's been doing well at night.  All of a sudden last week, she started waking around 5:40 am, and then after two days of that, started waking at night... for three nights before DF, so I did DF about 45 minutes early, then once after DF for about 2 hrs (a different night than a pre-DF wake) and once for about 30 minutes.  Last night she woke 45 minutes early for DF and then slept through until 5:40.  I know it could be worse, and I hate to complain after some of the nights we had earlier on... but I got spoiled, and I don't know what's happened.  Here her routine:

6:30 - downstairs (not before)
7:00 - BF
8:30 - cereal mixed with fruit + something fun to chew (bread, cheerios, pancake, etc)
9:30/9:40 - 11:00/11:10  - S (wake if not up by 1 1/2 hrs)
11:15 - BF
1:00 - veggies and a little fruit + chewable fun
2:30 - 4:00  - S (wake by 4:00)
4:00 - BF
5:15 - veggies, oatmeal, and chewable fun
6:40 - BF
7:00ish - bed
10:30 - DF

I'd appreciate suggestions!  TIA!

[claires mum]

Hmmm.. routine looks good to me.  I'm wondering if the DF is starting to mess with her natural sleep cycles now.  If she's taking in a good amount of solids then I think it might be time to drop the DF. 

[ElsMom]

I wondered about that, but she still takes a full feed at DF and a full feed at 7:00 am... she's exclusively BF, and won't take a bottle, so I don't have an easy way to get more milk in her during the day.  Is that common, though, to have wakings before the DF when it starts to be an issue?  Thanks!

[claires mum]

I didn't do the DF...but I think I have read that waking before is a sign that it might need to come to an end.  I'm sure that there is a FAQ sheet on the BF board...have you had a squiz?

If she doesn't take a bottle...will she take a sippy cup.  At this age I started to top up the last BF with a bottle and my LO took the whole thing.  So I was probably starting to lose my supply towards the last feed of the day. 

[Bryony]

Hi Lisa!

what is she doing when she wakes (chatting?  screaming?  grizzling?) and what do you have to do to get her back to sleep?

I agree with Claire's mum that the DF *might* be disturbing her sleep - it's common around that age....

Bryony

[ElsMom]

Hi Bryony!  Since she's been able to stand up in bed, that's what she does - immediately upon waking, she stands up, jumps up and down, and starts yelling/screaming.  She used to wake up and mumble and groan for a while before she decided if she needed me or not, and now that she's standing up, it's kind of immediate.  I have a video monitor, so I watch to make sure she's definitely standing, jumping, and yelling before I go in.  If she's crying but rubbing her face on her mattress, she's likely to go back down on her own... that just doesn't seem to happen anymore!

I'm feeling wimpy about giving up the DF.  I don't want to mess up her sleep, but I also don't want her to wake at 5:00 am from hunger, because then I don't know what to do with the day if I feed her at 5.  I guess I need to read up and see what I can learn.  I'd love to go to bed earlier and stay asleep all night (could that possibly happen again one day!?), but I'd rather do the DF at 10:30 than a feed at 4 or 5 am, IYKWIM.

Thanks!

[Bryony]

So is this a recent thing that happened the same time as her being able to stand up in the cot?  If so it may just pass again - these developmental things usually last about a week.  Give her lots of practice standing up and getting down again in the day....

with the DF - you could always try it for 3-5 days and go back to it if it doesn't help?  and if she wakes at 5 you could give her a small amount of milk so that she's still hungry at 7

HTH

Bryony

[arabesque]

Hiya Lisa!

Can you believe that Toby is doing the same thing as Elsie?! Twice in the past 4 nights we've had irate screaming boy at 9:30pm (DF is at 10pm) and I've had to feed him back to sleep (then still do the DF 1/2hr later because I'm a woos). Thought it was a teeth issue (but who knows, he still doesn't have any) but now maybe it's a DF issue. I'm going to find that FAQ that was recommended. I'm with you  - no other way (other than BF) of getting milk into him during the day, and he still takes a full DF.

[lilmonkey]

following with interest. 

[ElsMom]

Bryony - she's been standing in the crib/cot for about 3 weeks, and standing otherwise for about 2 months.  It took longer in the crib because she's in a sleep sack.  She went down better tonight, though, so fingers crossed that tonight will go better. 

Bec - Toby and Elsie seem to do a lot of copying off of each other, you know?  I personally woulnd't worry about doing the DF 30 minutes after the NF... that's got to be disturbing his sleep, ya know?  When Elsie started the early night wakings, I did the DF as much as an hour early and she made it through fine... but then started two nights later with the 2 am and 1 am wakings just to be awake.  But hopefully we're past that.

Last night she woke at 10:20 (just 10 minutes early for DF) and was up for about 45 minutes, including the time it took her to eat.  Usually DF just takes 15 total, but last night was still better than most over the last week.  I might try to do DF at 10:00 tonight to catch her before she wakes.  It used to be at 11:00 and I moved it to 10:30 when she started waking for it at 10:45... maybe she really is trying to tell me she doesn't need it, but I'm just SO wimpy!

Ok, going to find that FAQ now...

[ElsMom]

Hi again... the NW are still going on.  We had a 3 day break when I moved the DF up to 9:30 and seemed to catch her before she woke for the first time, but then it started again -both before and after DF, now at 9:30.  The last 3 nights, she's been awake for 1-2 hrs, and seems to be on the verge of sleep every few minutes for the first 45 minutes or so - she'll drift off and then wake and cry, drift off and wake and cry... repeat.  Then after 45 minutes to an hour, she just gets mad and won't calm back down, so I've been feeding her.  I know it's AP, but I'm so exhausted and I can't get her back down.  The times aren't the same - 1:00 am the first night, 2:00 am the 2nd, and 12:00 am last night.  So I'm thinking of giving up the DF cold turkey, so I'll at least hopefully only be feeding her once at night.  But when do I decide to feed and when not to?  Each time she wakes should I try to get her down without it for half an hour first?  I'm just thinking if she wakes at 10:00 and I feed her, she could still wake between 12 and 2 and want another...  But if the DF is what's disturbing her sleep, I can't fix it by replacing the DF with a NF, right?

Also, I don't know where to post this:  Does anyone have tips on how to introduce a lovey?  I tried a month or so ago, and she seemed to be really distracted by it, and wanted to play rather than sleep.  How do I choose one for her, and how do I give it to her and help her associate it with sleep?

[Bryony]

Hi again!

Sounds like a good idea to drop the DF - a lot of LOs get disturbed by it aroung her age.  How many times are you currently feeding her in the night?  At her age you would only expect to need one feed at the most. 

With the lovie - which baby whisperer books have you got?  There are some good suggestions in BWSAYP and BW for Toddlers. If she hasn't adopted someting herself I would try a bit of fabric (a muslin?  old t shirt?  bit of blanket?) that you have slept with for a few nights so that it smells of you. Also give it to her to cuddle when you feed her so that she associates it with comfort.

HTH

Bryony

[ElsMom]

Thanks.  If I drop the DF, and she wakes at midnight, do I feed her?  I was feeding her once (DF) per night, but the last three nights I've also fed her around 1 or 2 am after an hour + of being awake and not settling.  I don't think she's hungry, but by that point I'm exhausted and know she needs to go to sleep, and I know that feeding her will do that.  I know it's AP, but I don't want her to be up for another 2 or 3 hours and ruin the next day with being OT.  She's still taking a full 7 am feed, so I'm not sure what that's about.

Thanks for the lovey advice.  I've got all 3 books, but haven't read the Toddler one yet.  I'll check them out this afternoon.

[Bryony]

If you have the toddler book, there is a story about a boy called Cody with SA who she described introducing a lovey too - you might find this helpful.

With the feeds - it's hard to know - I would have thought  she would be able to go longer than midnight at her age - but you have to make a judgement call. It sounds as though she is used to being fed to get back to sleep though so she will be expecting it.  There is a FAQ in this NW section about dropping a night feed - there is also a link in props about what to do when feeding is a prop, you may find these helpful

Bryony