What I have learned (well, been taught) about naps to be true.

[lyndsy_p]

Okay I want to preface this by saying that I certainly didn't come up with this, but was helped by Aleesa (Aly Mac) who in turn was taught by Isabella and Jasminesmum.....

If you don't read anything else in this post, concentrate on this statement:

Naps by the clock work like magic after your LO is around 6 months old.

I *was* following the whole A time rule, checking the chart to see where abouts my LO fell in terms of A time between naps and adjusting her routine accordingly. She had pretty consistant wake ups until she was 6.5 months old (and the milestones and teething started) so her 1st nap of the day was roughly at the same time. Then her wake ups would vary sometimes by up to 1 hr (earlier of course ), so I thought, great I'll put her down 1hr early for her 1st nap. WRONG. She'd be hard to settle and really it seemed like she wasn't tired enough. The A times were the same as the day before, so why was this happening?

I'll tell you why......Napping by the clock works. Even when she woke LATER, she was still ready for her nap at the same time. Sometimes that nap would end a little sooner than usual, but if I waited to put her down to follow the "A time rule" then the nap would be uber short (30 mins).

I really feel like as our LO's get older, their bodies fall into a rhythm of when to sleep and when to be awake. When we adjust the routine daily it screws them up. I now put her down for her naps at the same time everyday and she sleeps great for them. No matter when she woke (it can still vary by up to 30 mins). I also believe that if that nap stays at the same time everyday, you are avoiding the reinforcement of early wakings by putting them down earlier according to the "proper" A time.

This was a lightbulb moment for me, and I thought I'd share it with my BW sisters.

Lyndsy

[Lindsay07]

Hi Lyndsy (I'm Lindsay too!),

can you give me an example of what you mean?  Like, timing-wise....

My ds sleeps for 30min naps and it's making me CRAZY!  He's just over 4 months old tho, so this might not apply yet???

I totally follow the "A time rules" and I have a feeling it's not quite working for us (i.e. 4 hour EASY - 2 hours of awake time) and am now trying for 1.5 hours of awake time... 

Please explain further!  (I think I don't understand the waking "LATER" b/c my lo NEVER wakes later, unless he's sleeping in the swing and I have to wake him to feed him!
Thanks!

[binxyboo]

I agree.
Dr. Marc Weissbluth hits on it in his book, he is a firm believer in there being biological times at which our bodies fall into sleep mode. What times are the naps at, incidentally?

Thank you for that.

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

Ok I am not 100 % sure on this one. It certainly worked for dd, she napped at 9.30 for 45 mins and at 12.45 ish for 2 hours until she easily dropped to 1 nap. Her second nap was also pretty predictable until almost 3 years.
It also worked for ds until recently when he started early wakenings and I had to change things a bit. Now I keep nap times at 9.15 or 9.30, this one works great usually get an hour to an hour 15 mins, 2 one is 1.30, used to get 2 hours or minimum 1.5 hours, we are now down to an hour in the last week which is not enough. I have today started to move bed time back as I was a believer in a set bed time, moved it back to 7.15 this pm, even though my spirited ds shows no signs of tiredness near bedtime, looked like he could go all night long.
Will be very interested to hear other opinions on this one.

[jess, lukeys_mom]

binxyboo as you said the weissbluth book helped me a lot with this. he suggests 9am and 1pm. my ds was (is) a big am napper so it became more like 9 and 2 for us but worked really well.
nice that you posted that lyndsy x

[kvmom]

Very interesting.  I was told the same thing but didn't believe it because I'm trying so hard to follow BW.  

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

Must get out my weissbluth book again and have a read, thanks for the reminder. Ds was a very bad colicky baby with reflux and the book helped a lot, maybe I can get some new ideas from it as ds doesnt seem to want to bW 

[lyndsy_p]

Lindsay....what I mean by "later" is when your LO wakes later in the morning. Again though, the A times are really tricky at 4 months so I would not follow napping by the clock totally at this stage. My LO couldn't stay awake longer than 1hr30 in the morning and 1hr45 before the 2nd nap so maybe 2hrs A time is causing OT.

Read weisbluth and ferber's books. Very helpful information about sleep cycles. Though I read them when my LO was around 5 months old and she couldn't stay awake until 9am in the AM.

She is 11 months old (tommorrow). Her routine is:

between 630-7am wake
1030 nap for 1hr
3pm nap for 1hr-1hr15
745 asleep

[lilmonkey]

So Lyndsy, do you keep the nap times the same no matter what?  DO you also keep bedtime the same?  Were there any NWs (or the same number of NWs) if the PM nap is short and bedtime remains the same?  I'm really interested in this as I'm finding that ds doesn't like BW very much.

[orbmom]

Thanks for writing this.  I was thinking the same thing the other day.  My little guy seems all over the place and I feel like I should just pick some times and stick to them to try to get continuity to our day.  His wake time varies, his sleepy queues are never the same, and we can't seem to get a consitant routine otherwise.  He is just over 6 mo. old. 

[lyndsy_p]

So Lyndsy, do you keep the nap times the same no matter what?  DO you also keep bedtime the same?  Were there any NWs (or the same number of NWs) if the PM nap is short and bedtime remains the same?  I'm really interested in this as I'm finding that ds doesn't like BW very much.

I love BW so it definately isn't about that.....BW is about keeping your baby on a routine, and this is exactly that.

To answer your questions: the only time the naps change are if she is crazy tired, and that means totally exhausted and cranky pants (teething or us being out and about). Then I put her down earlier (max 30 mins). Usually the nap will be short (45 mins) so I think I should  have just stuck to my guns. It's more for my relief than hers iykwim?

Bedtime winddown is the same every night:
710 bf (5-8 mins)
720  start winddown
725 in her crib

when she falls asleep is up to her. If she's totally sleeply she'll be out in 5 mins, if she takes longer she'll mantra or babble for longer. Sometimes she won't fall asleep for 25 mins at the most.

She doesn't really have NW anymore (that happened when I stopped feeding her at 530am at 9.5 months). If she does wake, she will babble and put herself back to sleep quickly. The shortest her PM nap has run lately is 30 mins (probably out or something like that, but it is rare) we may shift bedtime up 15 mins or so to compensate. Her threshold for sleep at night is around 11hrs so I don't put her to bed too early if I can help it.

[EllenS]

This is certainly true now that my lo is 13months.  AM nap is around 10:30, and PM nap is around 2:30, no matter when she woke for the day.

This ties in with a "cure" for early wakings that I was advised (don't remember who), which is to let the first A time of the day be the longest, and the one before bed to be the shortest - which helps set them up to sleep in longer in the morning.  Don't know how it works, but if I keep the AM nap at the same time, then an EW will result in a longer first A time, and then she goes back to normal wake time the next day.  Whereas, if we move the AM nap to compensate for the EW, she will continue to have erratic wakeup times in the morning.  Wierd.

But I would definitely agree with the emphasis on age 6mo and up.  This would not have worked on my lo when she was younger, as she got OT very easily - A times are more flexible as they get older.

[emmas]

God you are so right - my ds will only nap at 10 and 3 - regardless of what time he woke - he is 8months today he woke at 5.25 and went to sleep at 10 - if I try to put him down any earlier, say his usual 3.10 A time, if I actually manage to get him to sleep it will be for 45 mins or less!

Glad I'm not the only one!

[lilmonkey]

Thank you Lyndsy.  Your answers really help a lot.  I think that I should read up on Weissbluth again.

[Lucysmom]

I think there is something to be said for set nap times for certain kids.  There is some interesting information in the Weissbluth about the biology of sleep, but besides that the rest is mostly not compatible with BW.  He does talk about soothing to sleep (props) and then he talks about "extinction" which is CIO.  And of course Ferber is controlled crying.  So let's be careful not to endorse these books, but rather point out certain ideas that might be helpful.  I don't think anyone has said anything wrong, but in case a newbie comes along I wanted to point out our stance on CIO and controlled crying and that our main discussion on sleep and caring for our children is BW.  I hope I haven't offended anyone - not my intention at all.  Just being uber-cautious I guess.