what should i work on first???

[clairemk88]

which should i work on first... trying to get my lo to settle herself to sleep or extending her naps (she's a 45m nap monster & desperately needs more sleep)

i'm currently trying to increase her A time by an extra 10m every few days in the hopes of increasing her naps but i'm finding i'm resorting to using the paci more otherwise getting her down for naps is a real battle... i know it's lazy on my part but i'm just so shattered and not got the energy most of the time!

however if the paci needs to go then the paci needs to go and i'll put in whatever effort is required so she can learn to self soothe 100% of the time as she can sometimes settle down for naps w/o it, i probably use it 80% of the time and definitely more as the day progresses

i was really proud of myself and my lo y'day morning as i realised it was just her mantra cry and so didn't go in, 5-10m later she was out like a light... unfortunately i haven't been able to do it again but i'm working on it

[brenda2]

hi and hugs!

just a few questions for you and we'll see if we can help 

how old is she?
do you know what temperament she is?
how does she go to sleep now? with the paci and any intervention from you?
what have you tried in the past to get her to go to sleep by herself? CIO, pu/pd, shh pat?
where is she taking her naps?
has she ever had a long nap?
how does she sleep at night?
can you post your routine?

as for your question, the 2 go hand in hand.  if she learns to settle herself to sleep better she may extend her naps on her own as she will know how to transition into the next sleep cycle on her own.

[marensmama]

I think you're on the right track with trying to increase her A time.  I'd work on naps first and then the paci, since if she's OT  (or has short naps from UT that will eventually result in OT) she'll have a harder time settling herself.  Unless of course she is having short naps as a result of the paci coming out and waking her up.  

Oops, Brenda and I posted at the same time.  Two different perspectives, and of course more information will help with finding the cause of the short naps.  I think from your sig line she's a little over 3 months, right?  So possibly moving to a 3.5 hour EASY will get rid of the short naps.

[clairemk88]

how old is she?
she's 13w 3d

do you know what temperament she is?
mostly spirited but with a bit of touchy & even angel

how does she go to sleep now? with the paci and any intervention from you?
1st nap of the day is when I'm most likely to be able to put her down & she'll settle w/o the paci, otherwise always with the paci

what have you tried in the past to get her to go to sleep by herself? CIO, pu/pd, shh pat?
never CIO but have been trying to learn her mantra cry so as not to intervene to early, we always use ssh/pat which has always been successful, we haven't tried pu/pd as we thought she was a bit too young for this

where is she taking her naps?
she always takes them in her nursery, in her cot with the blackout blinds pulled, unless i'm out and about in which case it's either the car seat or her stroller - she always wakes whenever we come to a stop

has she ever had a long nap?
up until she was 10wks she would nap btwn 45m to 1.5hr, then we went away for a long w/e - it was a long journey, the weather suddenly got very hot (so we couldn't swaddle her) and she started teething (lower left incisor cut 10d ago)

how does she sleep at night?
she always takes a good 30-40m to settle at night then sleeps through the df btwn 10.30-11 and generally wakes anytime btwn 3.30-5 for a feed and goes back down easily until 7

can you post your routine?
E 7.00
A 7.20 low key play in bed with mummy and/or daddy
S 8.00

A 9.00
E 10.00
A 10.30 tend to keep it low key towards winddown
S 11.00
A 11.45 she's always so wide awake, cries for a short period then smiles so I keep it low key then when she starts yawning again i use ssh/pat
S 12.15

E 1.00
A 1.30
S 2.30
if I'm lucky i can get her down for another 40m nap otherwise she's A until the next feed

E 4.00
A 4.30
S 5.10 (9 times out of 10 this has to be in the stroller - walk through the park)

A 5.50 low key play followed by bath and some more low key play
E 6.30
S 7.00 - 7.15 it will then take until 8 at the latest to get her down for the night

DF btwn 10.30 & 11

NW btwn 3.30 & 5

[marensmama]

My goodness, an early teether!  Wow!  I had 6 teeth by 4 months, but my DDs didn't follow suit, still waiting for DD2's first ones to finally cut, and she's over 7 months!

Anyways, you are right, she's still too young for pu/pd, and that method is only used when pat/shh no longer works.

Overall the routine looks pretty good, with a few tweaks I think it'll be great!   The 'typical' 3 month old has 80-90 minutes of A time, so that first A time could maybe be stretched a bit (although the first A time is typically the shorter of the day, but I'd see if she can hold out another 10 minutes before nap).  Then for the second A time, she has 2 hours, which is generally too much for a LO of this age group.  I don't understand what you mean by S 7-7:15 and then takes until 8 to get her down for the night.  If you mean that she takes that long to get to sleep after you start trying at 7, that indicates that she is OT and I'd maybe try getting her down sooner for that catnap.  If she has a 40 minute nap at 2:30, that means it's another 2 hr stretch of A time which is again too much. 

HTH!

[brenda2]

that is early to teeth      my DD still has no teeth at 9 months!

i agree with nicole.  keep trying to extend her A time to 80 to 90 minutes, but following a 45 min nap you need to have a shorter A time - 2 hours is way too long, it may be as short as 45 to 60 min following such a short nap.  most 3 month old are getting 3 long naps and a catnap on the 3 hour EASY.

i think it's fine to use the paci to settle as long as she doesn't wake up when it falls out.  it can become a prop - it did for us at about 5 months but before that it was fine.  you're right shh pat is the proper technique at this age (and every age - pu/pd is a last resort when shh pat isn't enough).

[clairemk88]

Big thanks lovely ladies.

We 1st start to try and put her down at btwn 7-7.15 but it can take a few attempts, hence why it can go on until 8... we'll often put her down and need to go back 10-20m later, which is when i'm guessing the jolts occur... only just thinking about it as i type so we might trying staying with her tonight and work through them.

I've thought about 3.5 EASY especially as BF time has dramatically dropped recently (from 20m to 10m to 6m to about 4m - in the space of approx 2w), i was wondering whether she wasn't really all that hungry so was thinking of extending the time btwn feeds but do i need to get her napping for longer before i move on to 3.5 EASY???

Thankfully the paci falling out doesn't wake her (yet!!) i've watched her and when she wakes up after a 45m nap it's usually because she starts crying that it falls out. At bed time we try ssh/pat first before using the paci. The paci will then fall out before her DF and DH doesn't put it back in afterwards, so she doesn't use it again until after her early morning feed btwn 3.30-5.00. I use it then as she's a little too awake for my liking

Yipee... I feel like a new woman today. My gorgeous lo slept from her DF at 11 last night until 6.05 when I simply went in to her, popped the paci in and walked back out. I was totally expecting her to spit it out and starting crying but we had to go in at 7.00 to wake her!!! I don't expect her to do it again in a hurry but just knowing that she can is good enough for me right now 

[marensmama]

Great news!  Aren't those nights fab?!  I think the longer naps will follow the longer A time.  However, if she has a 30 minute nap after the longer A time, then cut back a bit before the next nap.  Make sense?  Also, re: the bfing, they do become more efficient as time goes on, so it might be just that, or a combination of better efficiency and not being as hungry.

[brenda2]

   yay for the great night!!

i agree with nicole re the A time.  babies do become more efficient as they get older  but a 4 min BF for a 3 month old seems quite short to me...i wonder if she's taking a full feed?  maybe slowly extending the time betweens feed will help.

[clairemk88]

Have you got a sample 3.5 EASY routine pls? I've tried to do my own thing today but next feed will be due 5.30ish which doesn't allow much time for a catnap before bath & bed routine which we normally kick off at 6. Didn't think that one through properly... doh!!

On the plus side she went down for her 1st nap of the day at 8.05, chatted for a bit then did her mantra cry for all of 3m before silence... I was so pleased with myself that i hung back & got it right again  

As a result of leaving 3.5h btwn feeds she has stayed on a little longer, even when I fed her while we were out. She's very nosey so can be easily distracted when feeding if I'm out & about, so it was a real result today!!

Eek, got to go the horrid ice-cream van playing it's music has woken her early from her nap and she doesn't sound a happy bunny   Grrrr!!!

[brenda2]

hate that when neighbours wake them up!   

you could head over to the EASY boards for sample 3.5 hour EASY routines.  i never found it right for me...bit mixed up with naps etc.  i just kind of did my own thing and made it up and then finally landed on a 4 hour EASY which was much better...but she's still a touch young for that.

[marensmama]

Sounds like great progress!  Keep up the good work!

[clairemk88]

re EASY board, will definitely check it out

thanks to both of you... fingers crossed it'll start to sort itself out... I have faith in my lo