Author Topic: less naps more night sleep?!  (Read 2930 times)

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Offline ~Mama Bug~

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less naps more night sleep?!
« on: June 01, 2008, 19:28:39 pm »
I've been tracking my daughters (6 months) sleep habits for a while now and I've noticed that when she naps for less than 2 total hours she'll sleep 11 hours straight through at night. However when she naps for more than 2 hours she'll have night wakings or wake really early. Do you think she could be ready for one nap already?? 

I'm not sure what else could be influencing her night/early wakings. The more she sleeps during the day the less she sleeps at night and vice versa. Yet she still seems tired during the day as if she's ready for a nap. I'll put her down and she'll only sleep thirty minutes, this happens whether I put her down after being awake for 2, 2:15, 2:30, 2:45, 3, etc. hours. Occasionally she'll sleep for 45 minutes or 1:15 but it's rare.

Any ideas what to do here? I'm at a loss.

Thanks,
Kristen
~Kristen

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Offline marensmama

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Re: less naps more night sleep?!
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2008, 22:51:09 pm »
I think she's a bit young to go down to one nap, that normally happens between 12-18 months, although some people have it begin to happen as early as 8 months.  Has she always had short naps?  How long have you noticed this for and can you correlate it with anything?  Does she have any props?  Could you post your routine?  Generally speaking, LOs at 6 months are sleeping 10-12 hours at night and have 2 naps at 1-2 hours each.  They can normally handle 2.25-2.5 hours of A time.  Maybe once we look at your routine something will pop out at us. :)
Nicole - Mom to My Lovely Girls


Offline ~Mama Bug~

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Re: less naps more night sleep?!
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2008, 01:12:25 am »
Thanks for your help. To answer your questions;

She was notorious for being a 45 minute napper, then she started taking 1.5 hour naps and then she'd mix up the 1.5hrs and 45 minutes (we were trying to figure out a good routine for her during this time) when she did finally settle into a routine her morning naps were the best and the rest were more play by ear.

She learned independant sleep three weeks ago and that's when her night sleep (finally) stretched to 11 hours and the naps got all wonky. This would answer three of your questions. No she doesn't use props, it's been happening for about three weeks and I would correlate it with the independant sleep.

Ok, time for routine. I'll post an average routine because it's been all over the place what with her short naps and not going to sleep when I put her down for a nap.

W/E  7am
S      9:15 - 9:45 (this nap can go anywhere from 30 minutes to 1.5hrs, on average though it's 45 minutes)

W     10 - 10:30
E       11
S      12:15 - 12:45 (from here on out naps, if she'll take one, are usually 30 minutes)

W     12:45 - 1:15
E      3
S ***3:15 - 3:30  (IF she goes to sleep)

W     3:45 - 4
E      5 (half feeding)

Bath at 7:30
E      7:45
S      8


***this is where things get interesting. If she takes her nap at this time I try to get her to take a catnap around 5 but it's touch and go. If she doesn't take a nap at 3ish then she'll usually take the catnap. Either way she's still up for a long period of time.***

I think that's about right. The past couple of days I've just been putting her to sleep when she starts acting tired which is about every 2 hours until the afternoon (again, only if she'll actually take a nap, sometimes I think she's undertired but she get's real fussy so I'm never sure). In the afternoon she doesn't seem tired much until that five o'clock mark.

Ok, it's all getting mixed up in my head and DH just got home so I need to go.  Thank you so much for your help!!!
~Kristen

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Offline marensmama

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Re: less naps more night sleep?!
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2008, 01:49:32 am »
30 minute naps generally mean that she's OT.  The first A time of the day is normally shorter, so I think that 2.25 hrs is too long for her and then a 30-45 minute nap is not restorative so she's OT for the rest of the day.  It's paradoxical that OT=less sleep, but their little bodies get all hyped up on adrenaline and can't settle.  I would give her maybe 2 hrs of A time after first waking, then use 2.25 as a guide for the rest of the A times in the day, unless she starts showing sleepy cues earlier, or if she has a short nap. 

Her being really fussy before a nap is another indication of OT.  Also, I'd move her bedtime earlier, 7:30 at the latest but earlier if she doesn't catnap.

I hope that makes sense!  I'm a bit mixed up myself from lack of sleep, and I'm totally envious of your good nights! ;D
Nicole - Mom to My Lovely Girls


Offline ~Mama Bug~

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Re: less naps more night sleep?!
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2008, 12:34:49 pm »
This morning she started yawning after being awake for 1.5 hours so I put her to nap but she fussed for a while and didn't fall asleep until two hours after she'd woken up. I'm hoping she's not OT due to this. I think that's another cause for her OT, she fights going to sleep for so long she wears herself out and doesn't go to sleep until she's really tired, leading to a short nap. We'll see how long she sleeps!

My only problem with putting her to bed earlier than 8pm is that everytime I've tried in the past she ends up waking 1-2 hours early. Same or less amount of night sleep as an 8pm bedtime but definitely less sleep for me!  I'm willing to try again though, we'll see how today goes. I'll probably try for 7pm tonight.

I do feel bad complaining about her naps when just a month ago we were in Night Waking hell!!! I'm so glad to have her sleeping through the night finally!
~Kristen

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Offline ~Mama Bug~

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Re: less naps more night sleep?!
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2008, 13:06:56 pm »
Yeah, 40 minute nap. Don't know what else to do at this point.
~Kristen

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Offline musicgal03

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Re: less naps more night sleep?!
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2008, 19:23:10 pm »
I had the same thing happen. Once DS napped less during the day he extended his nighttime sleep. I have found keeping him up about 2 1/2 hours is perfect and has been for about a month.He is about a month older than your little one. I am not saying you are not keeping him up long enough but once I extended the A time he is napping a lot better. Usually 1 1/2-2 hours in the morning and 1 1/2 hours PM. He also has a longer stretch of A time before bedtime, about 3- 3 1/2 hours and it seems to work really well since he does sleep 10-11 hours straight at night. I don't do a dreamfeed.. I guess it is different for all babies.

What I have found though is that it doesn't matter if I keep him up longer, he will still wake up about the same time.So I would give it another shot! Good Luck!

Offline ~Mama Bug~

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Re: less naps more night sleep?!
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2008, 23:11:19 pm »
Do you keep him up for 2 1/2hours even if he shows signs of tiredness? That's where a lot of our problems lay. She'll yawn and rub her eyes but if I lay her down for a nap she won't go to sleep for 30min - an hour.

Here's how today went

W   6:30am
E    7
(She started yawning at 8 so I put her down for a nap but she didn't sleep until 8:30)
S    8:30

W   9
E    11
S    11:30 (early but she was yawning and fussy)

W   12:30

She started yawning and rubbing her eyes at 2:15 so I put her down for a nap but she didn't go to sleep.
Got her up at 2:45 to eat and then back for a try at a nap.
Still didn't sleep and I had to go to the store, she ended up sleeping in the car.

S    3:30 (car)
W   4  (of her own accord, I kept driving until she woke up)

E    5:30 solids
Bath at 6:30
E    6:45
S    7  (well, I'm hoping anyway. it's 7:05 right now and she's still fussing a little bit, she may have drifted off as I type this.....)

So can you see my confusion?  She was yawning at 8 but wouldn't fall asleep till 8:30 causing OT to set in I assume. But then her next nap was an hour? I don't get that.  The 3pm nap refusal is pretty much everyday, that's what made me think she might need to go down to less naps. Then again she's obviously tired since she falls asleep in the car around that time.

Argh. I don't know.  I'm really hoping she sleeps until 7am.
~Kristen

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Offline marensmama

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Re: less naps more night sleep?!
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2008, 23:24:39 pm »
I think you really need to try increasing her A time in slow increments, as I said in my PP.  If you go down to one nap, I'd put money on one OT baby.  The first A time can be shorter, but not by a lot, and then do 2.25-2.5 hrs of A time the rest of the day.   The 11:30 nap was fine, the 2:15 one was too early.  At this age, their cues get a little less reliable, and she might be ready for sleep because if she's short napping, then she is used to being tired at this stage.  If she has longer A times, then she'll likely have longer naps.

HTH!
Nicole - Mom to My Lovely Girls


Offline ~Mama Bug~

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Re: less naps more night sleep?!
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2008, 02:02:34 am »
So how do I succesfully increase her A time, or do anything at all for that matter, if she doesn't go to sleep when I lay her down for a nap? Sometimes it takes her more than 30 minutes which makes it more likely that she'll be OT by the time she does go to sleep. Any ideas how to work that one out?

I agree on the longer A times = longer naps. We were doing it before all this started. Man, I can't wait to get back to regular naps! :) Thanks so much for all your help :)
~Kristen

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Offline marensmama

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Re: less naps more night sleep?!
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2008, 02:18:29 am »
I think if you get that A time right, I think the fussing will disappear for the most part unless it's a mantra cry?  If it escalates you could try pat/shh or pu/pd, but I think she's just trying to tell you she's not ready yet when you put her down.

:)  Let me know how it goes!
Nicole - Mom to My Lovely Girls


Offline ~Mama Bug~

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Re: less naps more night sleep?!
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2008, 12:10:15 pm »
What I don't get though, is when she yawns and rubs her eyes so much it makes them red but she won't go to sleep.  Not two hours after she woke up this morning she was doing that, so I put her down and at first I thought she'd fall right to sleep, now she's fussing a lot. She can sit up now and I'm wondering if she doesn't know how to lay back down....except that I've seen her do it but only when she's reaching for something so maybe it's not on purpose?
~Kristen

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Offline brenda2

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Re: less naps more night sleep?!
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2008, 17:37:28 pm »
hi kristen and hugs!  short naps are frustrating, but at least you're getting good nights!!

nicole has given you really good advice, i agree that 1 nap would be disastrous, but if you could get her to nap a touch longer you could probably go to 2 without much trouble and then wouldn't have to worry about her fighting the catnap so much.

i agree with the A times that nicole laid out for you.  30 min naps mean OT, 45 min mean Ut and if this is the case you can try slowly stretching her a time by 10 min every few days. try aiming for 2 hours A time for the first one and then 2.25 after that with an earlier bedtime.  when we did the catnap bedtime was about 1.5 hours after she woke up from it, when we dropped the catnap (at about 6.5 mo) bedtime was about 2.5 to 3 hours after a long nap.

what kind of wind down routine are you doing?  how long is it?  is the room dark?  developmental things can be tough, they're too busy practicing to sleep...sometimes you just have to ride it out.
   

   


Offline ~Mama Bug~

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Re: less naps more night sleep?!
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2008, 20:28:08 pm »
We've been stretching her A times the last few days and things have been going well until you get to the 3pm nap. She just won't take it. Even now, at 4:30, she's up there playing in her crib. She did the same thing yesterday and at 5 I finally got her out, by the time 6 rolled around she was one cranky baby. I ended up  starting bedtime routing 15mins early and she cried through it all.

I don't know what to do, her A time was 2:30 and she played for another hour meaning she's been up for almost four hours now. She's fine right now but in another hour shes going to be cranky again I'm sure. How are we supposed to make it to bedtime if she won't take that 3pm catnap?!
~Kristen

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Offline lilyandmollysmom

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Re: less naps more night sleep?!
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2008, 17:05:57 pm »
I just wanted to say that i'm having the EXACT same problem. Ever since Lily has started sleeping 11 hours a night, she fights all her naps. She starts acting tired 2 hours after waking up, I will try to put her down but she'll fight me for 30 minutes. Then when she finally falls asleep, she only will sleep 30 minutes. Very frustrating!
I'm going to do what they suggested and try to keep her up for a bit longer activity time. Kristen-let me know if you have any more success with all this.