I Just Need Some Feedback

[ammie32]

I am actually looking for someone to check my routine as it has been changing so in order to accomodate these short 45 min naps.  I have been incredibly unsuccessful with lo's naps and extending them, but today a miraculous thing happened... he slept for 1 1/2 hours without so much as a peep at the usual 45 min waking time!

A bit of background...  Brayden is 4.5 months and has recently been weaned from the paci (off completely for 3 days).  He has been a chronic 45 min napper since birth but I weaned the paci feeling that maybe it was to blame.  I now give him a small silky sided blankie to cuddle and he likes to suck on the corner during our wind down.  He is super easy to get to fall asleep!  He generally wakes happy after his morning 45 min sleep but daytime is much grumpier.  That was the nap I tried to extend and usually could after a great deal of time and using the paci. 

So here is today's schedule and I was hoping someone may have insight into why he slept better???  I am on 4 hour EASY and feeding cereal at night only.

6:30 wake and coo
7:00 BF
8:45 Wind down for nap
8:50 Sleep in crib
9:35 Wakes up and activity (toys, tummy time, chatting with mom and older brother)
10:50 BF
11:10 Walk in stroller
11:45 Wind Down for nap
11:55 Sleep in crib
1:30 Wakes up (and was a bit grouchy/crying and needed some cuddles???)
2:50 BF
3:30 Nap in swing
5:00 wakes up
5:30 cereal followed by BF
6:45 Bath
8:00 Bottle
8:30 Bed (goes right down and sleeps til next morning w/o any feeds)

I choose not to dreamfeed as he has been sleeping through since 3 months and weaned off last night feed easily!  I will also be giving cereal in the morning starting tomorrow.  I wonder if the extra calories and better night sleeping is lending itself to the longer nap today??? 

Any advice or feedback would be greatly appreciated!!!  I wish all naps were that great!

Thanks...

Ammie 

[brenda2]

hi
glad you are getting some longer naps.

a typical 4 hour EASY which would be appropriate for your LO since he is 4.5 mo is:

6:30 awake and E
A time 2 hours
8:30 - 10:30 S
10:30 E
A time 2 hours
12:30 - 2:30 S
2:30 E
A time 2 hours
4:30-5:15 S
6:30 E
A time short because after short nap, max 1.5 hours
6:45 to 7 bedtime  (aiming for about a 12 hour day from wake up time)

i would say your better naps are because you have weaned the paci,  which can often become a prop and will prevent LO from transitioning into the next phase of sleep.  so well done for picking up on that and weaning!!  it can be tough but worth it. 

however, i think you would do even better if you shortened up your A times a bit.  right now your A times (all time awake between naps) is 2 hours 20 min to 3.5 hours.  this is way too long for a 4.5 mo.  he may well be OT causing short naps and especially NWs with such a long A time right before bed.  the A time should be more like 2 hours, less if following a short nap, and 1.5 hours max following a catnap before bed.  i think if you shorten your A times you will get longer naps and a better night from him.  he obviously can do long naps now that you have weaned the paci.

one more thing, he is very young to be starting on solids already - did your ped suggest this?  usually LOs do not start solids until closer to 6 months, and 2 meals is a lot for a 4.5 mo.

[ammie32]

Hi Brenda!  Thank you for looking it over!  My other boy was on solids too at the same age and the ped said it was fine to start,  but right now I have only been doing one cereal at 5:30.  He has done really well.  I was under the impression that they can start solids between 4 and 6 mos.  My first was a BIG baby at over 9 lbs birth weight and this one was just 8 lbs.  But I started solids wiyh my first right at 4 mos.  I guess all peds are different.  Thanks for your suggestions!!!  I will try 2 hour A time today and hope for a good nap!!!!

[brenda2]

great!  if you are only doing 1 meal it should be breakfast so it doesn't upset tummy overnight.

let us know how the shorter A times work out!  good luck

[ammie32]

See and I asked my ped about when to give the meal and he said for dinner so I don't know??? 

So he took two short naps again today and tried for a third but woke right up chatting away to himself!  UGH.... Tell me this gets better!!!

[brenda2]

i think the advice has changed over the years, recently in canada the recommendation has changed from starting solids at 4 mo (my  now 5 year old nephew was started on solids at 4 mo) to starting between 4 to 6 mo, but closer to 6 mo if you can.   

solids can be very upsetting to their tummies, so if their  digestive system isn't mature enough it can cause problems.  we started at 5.5 mo with 1 meal and did have some trouble with rice as it is constipating.  she was doing 2 meals (breakfast and lunch) at 6 mo and 3 closer to 7 mo.  i would wait if you can...even if it's just for you (it's way more convenient not to have to feed solids!!)

i think most books out there say to start with 1 meal at breakfast because if they have an allergic reaction to the food you can see them through the day and pick up on it.  and their tummy wouldn't be upset over night.

i know all LOs are different, and i'm not saying your ped is wrong, it just seems everyone has a different opinion, and i think each country probably has a different recommendation too.  do what you think is right and what's right for your LO.  just know that most of his calories should come from the milk and that's what's going to keep him filled up and sleeping well at night.  it has more calories and fat and is digested slower than cereal or veg.

maybe head over to the solids board if you want more info on this...seems to be a controversial topic?

and yes, the sleep will get better.  just be consistent!  how long between nap 2 and nap 3 did you try for A time?

[ammie32]

I think it was about 1 hour and 15 min???  He was so cranky so I was sure it was that but now I think he is going through a growth spurt because today he seemed endlessly hungry wanting to eat every 3 hours!!!  He NEVER eates that often!  this has been a really off asnd strange day.  Thanks Brenda for all your support!!!

[brenda2]

don't you hate strange days where you don't know what is going on?  we had one yesterday.

well 1 hour 15 min A time after just a short nap is probably right.  not sure why he woke and wouldn't go back down.

maybe it's just a gs and things will get back to normal in a few days for you.  hope so!

[ammie32]

Well I really think that he is having a GS because he was hungry almost 2 1/2 hours after the first feed and 3 after the 2nd!  Also, I tried the schedule above and still only got a 45 min nap in the morning and another 45 min nap the next time.  Then I waited about 1 1/2 hours for his 3rd nap and he was impossible to settle!  He needed a nap in the worse way but cried when we wound down, cried when I layed him in his crib.  At first in his crib I let him go because it was sort of moany and whiny not really crying but after about 8 or so min it started to sound more like his cry so I went to him.  He escalated more!  So I picked him up and he stopped.  I layed him down again and walked out of the room.  He cried!!!!  So I waited a couple min and went back in.  I picked him up and he stopped.  So again I layed him down and left the room.  He cried for a couple more min but then nothing more.  I went in and he was fast asleep on his side holding his blankie. 

God I felt so horrible though!!!  I wasn't sure if I was leaving him too long to cry and if it was more like cio than pu/pd but I felt like I did better this time than ever before getting him to sleep when he is like that!  Yesterday I gave up on that 3rd nap because he did the same thing and it was just easier to take him out than to listen to him cry.  I am starting to wonder if since weaning him from the paci, he just needs more self soothing skills.  And if he never cries, he really can't try out ways to self soothe.  I don't know... this is all too hard sometimes. 

Thanks for letting me vent!

[brenda2]

you're in the right track!!  you just need to stay with it and it will get better!

you're right, after taking away the paci he needs to learn to self soothe.  this is what he is doing when he is crying, he's just trying to calm himself down or he's saying mommy i don't know how!  it's ok.  he'll learn.  as long as you're in there with him when he's crying then it's not cio and he's not going to be hurt by it.

sounds like you made some progress today when you tried the walking in and walking out.  he fell asleep by himself!!  this is great!  if he is moaning or mantra crying it is fine to leave the room like you did.  but if it's a real cry i would stay in the room...you don't have to pickhim up, you can continue just soothing in the crib, lay a hand on him etc.  if he really starts screaming pick him up and put him down as you did and if he switches to mantra crying go ahead and walk out.

it does take a few days for any schedule change to cause change.  continue trying it for another few days and see what happens.

[ammie32]

Ok that sounds like a plan!  I will keep you posted and of course ask more questions... it is so hard when he cries because even though I know he isn't mad at me it makes you feel that way!  You would think that after doing similar things with DS#1 is would be easier this go around, but it's almost as if I can't remember!  Maybe I just blocked it out!!!  Thanks again for all your help! 

[brenda2]

yes, keep us posted!

i know it's hard when they cry.  i found it really hard to sleep train and to wean the paci, and then to sleep train again.  and now she's teething and there's more crying.  there's always something!!  but it gets better and then it's all worth it!

[ammie32]

So today was very interesting... I had to take DS#1 for bloodwork and had Grandma to watch the baby.  He only took a 45 min nap this morning so I told her by 11am she will find him getting tired.  She tried to get him to sleep in the crib and finally gave up and sat him in the swing.  He was still sleeping when I got home at 1:30 !!!  He slept from 11:15 to 2!!!  And this is the interesting part... The swing was still (she said she accidentally turned it off and couldnt get it going).  I wonder why he liked it in there and it wasnt even moving???  Hmm...

[ammie32]

So once again the last nap of the day was a disaster!  Wouldn't settle and cried and cried when I tried to help him.  Tried what I did yesterday and he wouldn't die down just kept escalating so after almost an hour DH said it was time to stop and he was too much of a mess.  I am really not thinking I should have taken the paci away now because it seems that he can't self soothe and is just not having any of it.  Not loving this!  DS#1 was a breeze... only took 3 days to get him to sleep independently and has been great ever since.  He is such a good sleeper that he never woke up through all the crying and screaming his brother was doing.  Hmm...  wish I could figure where I went right with him and wrong with the baby!

[brenda2]

does he have reflux?  reflux babies sleep better when they are more upright.  you could try elevating the head of the mattress if this is the case.

all babies are different.  i don't think you are doing anything wrong, some just have an easier time learning to sleep by themselves.

you should take a break from trying to get him to nap after about 45 min or an hour, so you did the right thing.

how long has it been now since you weaned the paci?