He won't take his catnap and it's KILLING bedtime!

[Tamar A]

Ok, so I'm all over the short nap threads already; today we had an excellent nap day (2x 1:45 and 2x 45-min really close together) and I thought it might solve this problem, but, sadly, no go. Here's my problem:
     DS simply will not go down for his last catnap. I have tried everything; shorter A time, longer A time, swing, stroller, car, rocking, every AP known to man; NOTHING will get him down for that last catnap. As a result bedtime is a nightmare of OT screaming, thrashing, jolting awake after 10-15 minutes of sleeping, etc. Average time to get to bed is usually around 1.5 hours, although last night it was more like 2hours 15 minutes. It is KILLING us.

Here is the "average" short-napper routine he's been doing:
   7a up, E, dress, etc.
   8:15 wind-down and S
   9:00 up, A
   10:00 E, very light A
   10:15/10:20 wind-down and S
   11 or so A
   12/12:15 wind-down and S
   1:00 E and A
   2/2:15 wind-down and S
   3:00ish A
   4:00 E and very light A
   Shortly thereafter S
 And then it all goes to pot!! I generally can't get him down after that and he hollers for the rest of the evening and like I said, bedtime is pretty much about as enjoyable as a root canal.


Today he started with two awesome naps and here is how the day went: really well until about 20 mins ago:
   6:40 woke up and talked to himself in the crib
   7:00 I got him up, E and A
   8:00 Winddown and S
   9:45 A
   10:15 E (I'm trying for a 3:15 eating schedule; we're working towards a 4-hr easy)
   11:05 winddown and S
   1:00 A
   1:20 E (he was really ferocious and wouldn't go the last 10 mins!)
   2:15 winddown and S
   3:00 he broke my heart by waking at 45 mins on the dot again! 
   3:50-4:15 cried and hollered and rubbed his eyes and nuzzled and refused to sleep!! AAH!
   4:15 I gave up and rocked him to sleep, bad, I know but I got to avoid the OT!
   5:00 E and A (watch Mommy and Daddy eat dinner, walk in stroller; not too stimulating!)
   6:15 winddown results in a total meltdown of thrashing and screaming and GOD BLESS DH who is just trying to calm him down in his room with the lights off.

so......WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?!?!?!? I try like crazy to avoid OT/OS, which obviously I NAILED for the first two naps, but why can I never get him to go to sleep for that last catnap? The goal is for him to wake around 6:30 or 6:45 for a bath at 7:00 and then some stories and a cuddle, into jammies, some lullabys while swaddled, and bed by 8:00. I'd appreciate some help. DH and I are really hoping he can be asleep shortly after 8p so we can have some time to ourselves together......as it is we wind up trading off all evening as the little banshee wears us out.  Any pointers?

[brenda2]

hugs!! been there!  it's horrible, i really feel your pain.

so i think he's gearing up to drop the nap and go to a 4 hour EASY schedule which has 3 naps - 2 long and 1 short.  this is probably the problem.  he's not quite ready, but close and so he's fighting the last nap.

what you did today sounded great for the first 2 naps.  you did 1 hour 20 min A time for the first 2 resulting in long naps, and then 1 hour 15 min which resulted in a 45 min nap.  45 min naps can mean OT or UT.  i think since he's getting close to 4 mo and had had 2 really great naps this day that he was UT after just 1 hour 15 min A time resulting in your short nap.  but then by bedtime, he was OT again because of the short nap.  that's why he was crying and fighting going down.  does that make sense?

so i think you should try to stretch your A time very slowly...5 or 10 min every 3 days.  you are working towards 2 hours of A time as he goes to a 4 hour EASY.  for some babies this is close to 4 mo, we were closer to 5 mo before DD could do 2 hours As time.  so you have to really watch them to make sure they're not getting OT and you haven't stretched too much.  you could try for a 3.5 hour EASY in the meantime.  if you get a short nap then you have to shorten the A time again.

also, whatever time he wakes from the catnap - he should do bath, feed and back in bed asleep by about an hour after he woke up.  1.5 hours is probably too long right now.  so if he wakes up at 6:30 from a short nap, back in bed by 7:30 at the latest.  hopefully this will lessen the crying before bed and allow you to have your evening   if he's OT by the end of the day you want to go with an earlier bedtime to compensate.

HTH

[Tamar A]

Thanks; that makes a lot of sense. I'll try that. Doesn't the A time get shorter as the day goes on? As it was that last 1:15 of A time, he was rubbing his eyes before even an hour was up, I tried to stretch him but then he cried......

  Last night after I wrote that post, DH got him to go down, around 7p, for about 20 minutes. When he woke I popped him in the bath, put his jammies on, lights out, feed, swaddle, and lullaby and in bed by like 7:45.
   He dropped off pretty easily but his sleep was fragile for over an hour; I could hear him beeping and muttering on the monitor.

BUT THEN!!!!!
   He woke at 11:00, 11:30 (I gave up and fed him around 11:45), 12:15, 1:30, 2:30, 3:00 (gave up and fed him at 3:15), 4:45, and at 6a was up for the day.
WHAT DID I DO WRONG??!!?? For the past week or two we've been having only 2 NW's and he's been staying asleep till 7a (which is my ideal wake-up time) or thereabouts. I've been almost rested! So what happened? Did he have too much sleep?

[brenda2]

i doubt he had too much sleep...if too much sleep usually they sleep well but maybe wake once and stay awake chatting etc for a while before going back down.  usually they don't cry when they wake, or they may sleep well for the whole night but wake up to start their day really really early.

what was he doing when he woke up?  chatting, screaming? what did you do?

does he have any props?  teething (early...)?  gas or other pain?

waking that frequently and crying usually means OT or pain or dependent on a prop to transition and they're waking for it.  do any of these click with you?

[Tamar A]

When he wakes he usually fusses for like 3-5 minutes, then begins hollering when he realizes that no one's coming in! I think he gets lonely. We wait until the fussing becomes crying, then I go in and re-swaddle and try to get him back to sleep. If it's really not working, or if it's been at least 4 hrs since a feed, I'll feed him.

He's recently started drooling massively and gnawing on things where he used to suck, so he might be sort of pre-teething. And he has massive amounts of gas; it's passing though, not trapped like it used to be.

He does used a paci to go to sleep; I wish he wouldn't, but if I try to get him off without it, he'll just scream for literally hours and I dont' have that kind of stamina. He doesn't seem to need it for transitions, though; for almost a week now he's been going 4-6 hours at a time (at night) without it.


I have another question though; Id' like to begin trying to extend his A time, which will work for the first A time, which is pretty consistent......but when he's getting 45 minute naps his A time is literally all over the board. I've been looking at his EASY log, and his A times are anywhere from 40 minutes to the full 1:20. What sort of A time should I be looking at following a short nap?

I'm sorry for the tons of questions. He eats well but his sleeping is so erratic I feel like it's killing me, and some days I'm too tired to do more than sit and look at him, which isn't too stimulating!!
 By the way, Avery is completely beautiful!

[brenda2]

thanks    she has 1 tooth now on the bottom and it's so cute!

so it may be pain that's waking him, or the paci or contact from you if he needs it to transition. or it may have been OT.  you'll have to wait and see on this one.  if this was just 1 night of lots of wakings and he goes back to his regular 4-6 hours at night then obviously it's not the paci.  but paci addiction can come on fast (and it can cause short naps too) - we had this at about 5 mo and then i weaned the paci and it was much better after that.  just keep an eye out for it.

your waiting until he cries and then going in is a good plan.  how long do you give it trying to put him back down before you feed him? 

begin with the first A time to extend it (keep in mind this A time is often shorter than the rest - it may be a while until it's up to 2 hours, for us it was about 5 mo). then if you get a short nap the following A time would be about half and hour less than he was doing.  maybe only an hour, maybe just 40 min - it's really hard to tell and all Los are different.  you'll have to watch for cues too.  hopefully  extending the A times will allow him to take a longer nap and then it won't be an issue...

[Tamar A]

thanks....I'm trying to watch for cues but he's a slow waker-upper, and he yawns and rubs his eyes for like 1/2 an hour after waking........sometimes he just never stops and it's hard to tell when he's still waking up and when he's ready to go down!! hehe. I'll try starting with the first A time....
  I appreciate your time and help!

[ruthie + one]

hey sorry to but in just wondering do you bf? i do and we had the same prob when fin was about that age . i think it was because my milk had sort of run out by that time of night. i now give him a bottle at 7 and he nails the whole thing and goes to sleep content in about 20mins it used to take about 2-3 hrs with the bf and he would scream and get frustrated because there was nothing there for him !!

i used to dread the last feed of the day i think me worrying bout it so much was making the problem worse !

good luck

[Tamar A]

I do bf; I didn't know that can happen. I'll keep an eye on it tonight and see if he protests, and if I feel a letdown. I dont' usually have any supply issues, and for his night feeds I definately hear him gulping and everything (he's such a noisy eater!). I'll let you know.

[Tamar A]

Well, I've tried putting the catnap all over the place, played with length of catnap and when he wakes up from it, and nothing is getting him down easily. It's still taking 1 hour + to get him down.....maybe it's all his short naps messing him up, he's not getting enough in? For the last week he's been getting 4 naps of 45-55 mins each pretty consistently, although the A times are not consistent, and neither is when he wakes up for the day. I know part of the problem is that we're just on the go at least 2 days out of the week, plus Sundays are impossible with church. I was hoping being consistent with the catnap might help us out, but i haven't found the key yet. Any suggestions?

Ruthie, I've been keeping an eye on the before bed BF, supply is not a problem for us!! We're moving towards a 4-hour easy (between 3.5 and 4 hours right now) and he's eating much much better. I think he was too big for the 3-hr easy. Thanks for hte tip though.

[jumpinjive]

Hi Tamar.  Thanks for posting this.  I'm a newbie to all of this.  My son is 5 months tomorrow, but he was a month early, so developmentally he is 4 months.  I just got one of Tracy's books last week and started the EASY  4  days ago.  Talk about a bad time to start it with 4th of July and all. : )  Anyway he has been having the same problem with the catnap as your son.   I've been struggling with trying to have a strict schedule and every time I get to the catnap the whole thing blows up in my face.  Of course, I also haven't been very successful at keeping a very strict schedule because of the holiday.  I will be watching this thread with interest and keep you up to date with my trials as well. 

[Tamar A]

Hi jumpinjive, welcome!! Please do keep me posted, and if you find something that works, share share share!! I'm so anxious for his bedtime to be consistent, and for it not to take 1-2 hours for him to go to sleep. (((HUGS))) and good luck!! If I figure anything out, I'll let you know, too.

[brenda2]

hi tamar
how long are his  A times now?  if you are getting 45 to 55 min naps i'd say he could handle slightly longer A times.  naps of this length usually mean UT (45 min can mean UT or OT, but 55 min i'd say definately UT).

we often had bedtime struggles too at that age. if they are OT at all by the time bedtime comes it really gets hard...the last A time should be really short.  what are you doing for winddown?  sometimes the bath this young can be too stimulating so if you're doing it at night maybe move it to the morning.

[jumpinjive]

So we actually got a catnap yesterday.  It was awesome!  This was the schedule.
E - 4:30am
W/E - 8:00 am
A - 8 - 9:30 am
S - 9-30 - 11:00am ( with a 45 min wake up and sh/Pat)
A - 11 - 12:40 (I decided to try keeping him awake longer to see what would happen -even if I was still trying to switch from 3 hrs to 3.5)
The rest of the day was a dream.
S - 1-3 (one sh/pat 45 min in - took 10 min.)
E - 3:00 ( the best eat in a long time)
A - 3:30- 5
S - 5-6 ( Yeah CatNap!!)
E -6
A- 6:30 (bath)
S - 7:30 Bed

It was a nice day.  I was beginning to wonder if it would ever get better.   This day has given me hope to get me through today which has been aweful.   You know the whole 20 min sh/pat 45min sleep go back in sh/pat for 30 min. etc. 
I did discover that he had a very wet diaper when I went to put him down for his second nap (oops kind of forgot about the diaper poor baby)  That helped, but he is still waking up every 10 min on me on his second nap.  I wonder if I will get a cat nap out of him today?

Seems to me that the 4 hour was the key for Noah.  I'm trying to push for it today again but we didn't start out as well as yesterday and he's decided to do the whole snack thing again today which makes it hard.  : (  But there is hope, I know it now.  Hang in there Tamar and know you're not alone.  I found myself crying with him today.  hehe.

[brenda2]

jumpinjive, sounds like he's ready for a 4 hour EASY.  it may take a few days for him to adjust, and remember if you get a short nap you have to shorten the following A time or else he will get OT and the short naps spiral.