How do I extend A time if he's a short napper?

[Tamar A]

I think DS is ready to move to a 3.5/4 hour EASY. Here's my problem; we're not on EASY, becuase he's a short napper (45-50 minutes) and I've just been trying to get them in there whenever we can. We're sort of going EASAEASASA...you get the idea. Anyway, I've been writing down EVERYTHING, and have yet to notice any pattern in how long he can handle for A time. First thing in the morning is the only consistent thing, and even that's a little floppy, cuz sometimes he wakes at 6 and won't go down, sometimes it takes him 20 mins but then he sleeps till 7 or 7:15, sometimes he wakes for the day at 6:45, ANYway.....

First thing in the morning he's usually good for about 1 hour 20 mins, sometimes 1 hour 30 mins.
After that, sometimes he's good for the full hour and a half, sometimes he can only keep it together for 45 minutes, sometiems he's fine for an hour. Yesterday he was happy for 2 full hours before even one yawn!! I have no idea what's going on.

How do I knwo how to extend his A time? I know it's supposed to be by 5 mins every three days.....but when I have no idea what his A time is to begin wtih?  Should i just keep him up 5 mins after he begins to show the sleepy cues?

I've already been extending the time between feeds; we did about a week of 3 hours 15 mins, now we're moving up to 3.5 hours. Although if he's in the middle of a nap, he'll go 4 hours without complaining.
   Any suggestions would be so appreciated!!

[stagemanager2]

hello,

I don't have an exact answer but I have a question:
those 45min naps... have you tried to extend them?  (Am I bringing up something you have already tried like a thousand times and it just didn't work?  thus realizing you just have a short napper?)

at this age they can mean: OT UT or Prop problem.

With the sounds of the different A times all through the day it may be OT/UT thing...
Does he have a paci?

[Tamar A]

I tried extending his naps for about a month. It usually ended with us both wailing hopelessly and DH coming home and taking the baby from me!! So a few weeks ago I said the heck with it, i'll just get him up when he wakes up and put him back down when he's tired again. We haven't gotten any longer naps, but we're a lot less stressed out, and he's happier more of the time, barring from about 6-7p. Extending wasn't happening and trying to was really making me an unhappy mommy.

As far as the OT/UT/OS......I'm trying SO HARD to read his cues, it's just that sometimes he gives absolutely none and then he's screaming, and sometimes he rubs his eyes within 10 minutes of waking up. I try to watch the clock as much as I watch him, I can usually get him down easily enough for the first 2 or 3 naps, regardless of the A time.

He does have a paci, and I know it's a bit of a problem, but frankly I dont' have the stamina to deal with more than one issue at a time. I'm extremely underslept and it doesn't take much to discourage me these days.

Nights he's doing better; 2 wakings most of the tiem, and usually sleeps to within a half-hour of when I want him to get up (which is 7a, so usually he'll sleep until around 6:30 and then talk to himself for half an hour). Occasionally we have the night from hell and he wakes 7-8 times, but they're getting fewer and farther between.

[stagemanager2]

oh hun... it sounds awful!  hugs!

So with a short napper I think what you should do is focus on his cues.  It sounds like that is what you're doing and doing a great job as it seems to be less stressful for you...

The one thing I would try to do is make his first A time the shortest of them all.  Usually when that first A time is shorter they tend to have a better day of naps and A times.  So when he wakes at 6:30 and he coos for half an hour before you get him up remember that half an hour counts as A time and get him back in bed at about 7:45... this might help with the first nap.  It may also get him ready for the long day ahead of extending those A times over a few days... With this age a half an hour means alot... (but if this brings back those awful days don't push the early nap as you are under enough stress as it is.  Just give it a shot for a few days.  If he doesn't go down easily the first few times perhaps this isn't something that will work for him)

so just for the first A time don't follow the cues just try looking at the clock then for the rest get him to bed when the cues tell you to...

also- do you know the temperment of your lo?

You're doing great... two night wakings isn't bad at all... But try to rest before weaning that paci and I'm sure those will go away when you do.  HUGS again...

ps love your avatar... so sweet!

[marensmama]

Hi there!  Heather is giving you some great advice.  Just so you know, LOs his age can usually handle 1.5 hrs A time, but as he gets closer to 4 months it'll be an average of 1.75-2 hrs.  However, if he's a short napper, you need to cut back on the A time to compensate and that first A time of the day is usually the shortest.  So no wonder you can't see a pattern, it would seem that those A times are all over the place.  At least you know there is a reason why it looks that way!  If the problem is UT, he'll be happy and talkative upon awakening.  If he's screaming, it's OT.  Try to keep that in mind and adjust the A time accordingly.

As far as the paci goes, addiction usually rears its ugly head at 4-5 months and you'll likely know when that occurs because he'll need several 'repluggings' through the night.

That's my two cents, but as I read it back, I'm just reiterating what Heather has told you. 

[Tamar A]

So, I should watch the clock more than David, is what you're saying? About 1 hour 30 for the first A time, then.......what, if he's only getting 45-min naps, maybe 1 hour? 1.15? Because it seems that his cues are completely unreliable, either that or I'm getting stupider (a real possibility!! I've been tired since the end of the 2nd trimester with him!!).
    As for waking from short naps....sometimes he wakes smiling and keeps smiling for an hour or more, sometimes he wakes smiling but cries and rubs his eyes within 5 or 10 mins, sometimes he wakes crying but won't go down and continues to cry until I join him. I dunno what's going on. I think he needs a lot of sleep, but is afraid he'll miss anything. He really fights hard to stay awake!! But I'll try shortening his first A time of the day and then giving him 1.15 after short naps. I'll start with that and see how it goes.
 Thanks for your help!!
Heather, I love that pic with the big feet; so cute. Nicole your girls are just BEAUTIFUL!! I saw some pics of them in the photo gallery, too. I can't wait to have a girlie of my own, I just hope she's easier than darling David!

[marensmama]

LOL, no, I don't think you're getting 'stupider'!! And thank you for the compliment about my girls, can you tell I get all gushy over them?  

Anyways, I think what worked for me was to use the clock as a guideline, and then the cues were reinforcement or if they didn't 'fit' with what was going on, I ignored them.  For example, if you know he had a decent nap (60 minutes) and he's yawning 30 minutes later, he's maybe just bored.  If you change the activity and he gives another cue, then maybe he's tired and A time should be shortened appropriately.  As your LO gets older, his cues will become less reliable.  

During that first A time, I'd keep watching him for cues from 1.15 on, not letting him go past 1.30 (that first A time is always shorter at this age).  If he has a decent nap, then next A time can be 1.30 to 1.45 minutes, again looking for cues.  If he short naps, then 1.15 is the most I'd give him.  

When he does wake crying, is there nothing you can do to get him back down?  How often does that happen?  What have you tried and for how long?  Maybe extending those naps can happen without stressing you out, if you get him up the rest of the time when he wakes happy.  KWIM?  

Let me know what you think!  

[Tamar A]

Hehe. I tried extending his naps by every means known to woman when they started being short, about 2 months ago. Obviously, I started with shh/pat, which works if he's going down the first time but simply infuriates him if he thinks he ought to be getting up. Then I try rocking him back to sleep, but if he doesn't want to sleep he'll arch his back and fight his way out of hte swaddle. Then I try putting him in the swing, but he's becoming immune to that (as well as the car and the stroller argh!). Then I try holding him and dancing/walking/deep knee bending. The frustrating thing is that all that work only gets him back to sleep about 1/4 of the time, and then it's only for like 10-15 more minutes. Finally DH insisted that I stop, as it usually ended in tears (mine) and occasionally I'd have to go in another room and chuck shoes at the wall or something. So I quit.

He's really spirited with a pretty healthy dose of touchy.

[stagemanager2]

hugs.... I know this feeling and I completely understand....

Something that really helped us was to be consistent with A times.... you wouldn't think it would help all that much but it does.  But you have to be consistent for a few days- 5at most before you deside it isn't working and you have to try something else.  Don't make yourself crazy about trying to get him down again.  I suggest just working on the rest of the routine and perhaps the naps will fall into place...

thanks for the compliment about ds feet pic he likes em so the parents have to like em too eh?

[Tamar A]

I will certainly try. The difficult thing is that we're on the go alot during the summer, and not really things we can get out of; weddings and such, visiting family, and church every sunday. I'll try to carve out a solid week and let you know how it goes. It helps that DH is home for the summer.

[Tamar A]

About paci addiction; what I do is use the paci to calm him at bedtime (he just HATES going to sleep, and will wail unless "plugged"), I leave it in until he's almost out, then remove it and shh/pat the rest of the way. If he's really tired, then I just wait a little longer to remove it. Can it turn into an addiction this way? He very, very rarely needs the paci to go to sleep after a night feeding. Am I ok? Without it, he really hollers for a loooonnnng time before dropping off.

[marensmama]

Oooooh, OK, so pat/shh does work under the right circumstances.  That's great!  It probably means that when it hasn't worked, he's been crying to tell you what he needs.  For my touchy/spirited LO, she was telling me she needed more A time.  It would be interesting to see what happens if you get the A time 'right', I'd not go crazy with it, but if he wakes up crying after a short nap, I'd try pat/shh again.  I modified it for my LO because she hated to be patted, so I just kept my hand on her chest while shh'ing and that did the trick.  You could try that.   Give up if you're crying, though, that's no good for anyone.  I really believe in that method, it saved my life with my touchy/spirited refluxer who had an addiction to her prop (me). 

Neither of my 2 had a paci at all, so I don't have much experience there.  However, to my knowledge, if he doesn't need to be replugged through the night or every 45 minutes when he transitions, it's not an addiction.  Your use of it seems fine IMO.

[stagemanager2]

good luck,

and as pp said don't make yourself crazy!  We never worried much about extending we would give ourselves 15min and if it didn't work then up our ds came from the crib and EASy started all over agian!   keep us up todate, you're doing great!

[Tamar A]

Thank you for the encouragement!! I'm going to try to stay home with him during the day this entire week (now that Sunday's over and we're home from church!) and be a real stickler for A times, and I'll let you know how that goes. Man, though, this is the hardest job I've EVER done (and I used to teach middle school!). I love it, but it's HARD!:)

[jkuhn]

I just joined the message board to try to find out things to try for this exact topic.  My Abby is 3 1/2 months and is a short napper.  (30-40 minutes).  A big part of our EASY routine problem is that she only gives us about 1 hour of A time before she becomes tired, sometimes up to 1 hr 20 min if we are lucky.  And she is usually pretty tired at that point.  It takes less than 5 min to get her to nap at that point using ssh/pat.  I just started this last week and I couldn't even keep her up on my shoulder for a few minutes before she would fall asleep there, so I had to put her down really quickly to get her to fall asleep on her own in the crib. So I know we are hitting her sleep window.  Anyway... About 75% of the time we can get her back to sleep with shh/pat after she wakes up, but sometimes that only lasts for 10 or 15 minutes.  And sometimes it will only last as long as one of us is sitting there with our hand on her chest.  (my husband had vacation last week, so he could help then.  This week I'll be on my own.)  She does use a paci sometimes, but it usually comes out fairly quickly after she falls asleep, sometimes before. 

She sleeps quite well at night.  She usually goes down around 7 and wakes up once or twice depending on the night.  I'd like to think that she just only needs to short naps, but when I let her stay up then she is just miserable and cranky and tired all day.  I'd say that she is spirited and touchy.  (We stopped breastfeeding a few weeks ago because she decided that she was done.  48 hours of hell, but that's another topic all together.  anyway, I am now pumping exclusively, so I can't spend 1/2 the day sitting next to her to ensure that she naps, and still keep my sanity.)

Any ideas?  Thanks.
Jen