Naps are short inconsistently

[KATE999]

Hi,
I thought I had a short napper but I read somewhere on this site that you have a short napper if the naps have never been longer than 45 minutes, he's happy during the day, and gets most of his sleep at night. Well, mine is happy most of the day (usually) and gets most of his sleep at night (12-13 hours), but he has sometimes slept for 2-3 hours in the mornings and once or twice in the afternoon. He seems to do it some days and not other days. On the days he doesn't he's not really very cranky, but sometimes is a little less enjoyable to be around than others. I find it so hard to figure out how to do EASY and extend the time between feeds when he's catnapping because the cycle kind of relys on long naps to always feed when they first wake up. Do I have a short napper? If so, how do I deal with it and my routine?
Thanks,
Kate

[brenda2]

hi kate
often naps are short if the LO is UT or OT or dependent on props.  some bubs are short nappers, but  they almost always do a short nap.  if he can do longer naps some times then you know he's capable and you may have some luck with tweaking your routine a bit to see if this will help.  can you post what you do most days (or what happened yesterday if it's all over the map).  how old is he now?  does he go to sleep independently?

[mkoehl]

I'm in a similar situation and am looking for some guidance.  I have a 10.5 week old boy, and over the last three weeks he has been taking more and more 45 minute naps.  First it was only 1 a day, which could be dealt with.  Now, it's three or four a day, and I don't know how to adjust EASY to it.  I've been on EASY since day one, and he used to be on a three hour cycle no problem.  He knows that when he wakes he's supposed to eat, but there is no way I'm feeding him after a 45 minute nap!!!  How should we adjust?  He does usually take at least 1 good nap a day, but the time of day that he takes it varies.

Here's a taste of what happened here today.  Please help!

8 am - wake, eat
9:20 - nap (that was probably to early, but he was showing signs of sleepiness, even getting a little cranky)
10:00 - wake (obviously, way early, so I did everything I could to distract him before his next feed), activity (he didn't get fussy until around 11:05, so I thought that was good!)
11:15 - eat ( but not a good feed.  I think it was because he was tired)
11:50 - nap (a long one... I'm lucky if I get one of these in a day!)
2:10 - awake, eat (we had a couple of major diaper changes here, so it's a long feeding time)
2:50 - activity
3:55 - nap (this was kinda funny... he was yawning like crazy around 3:30, so I swaddled him and started the wind down, and he was completely wound down.  The second I put him in his crib, he started kicking his legs alot like he was excited.  So I patted him and shh ed him until he fell asleep at 3:55)
4:40 - awake, activity
5:10 - eat
5:45 - watched the rest of us have dinner
6:15 - hubby tried to put him down for another nap, but he wouldn't, so hubby just held him to get him to at least rest of a few minutes. 
6:45 - active again
7:35 - final bottle before bed (only formula bottle of the day)
8:15 - out for the night

Now, he'll probably wake me twice tonight, which I have no problems with at this point.  First one between 1 and 3, and the second one three hours after the first one.  Then, some days he'll sleep till 8, and other days he'll wake up happily at 6:15 and play in his crib until he gets crabby around 7.

I've tried cutting his awake time, lengthening his awake time, making his awake time less stimulating, everything I can think of.  We do have a wind down routine that takes about 10 minutes, and I've tried lengthening that too.  I've tried going in and shh patting him through the 45 minute sleep cycle change, but he sees me and thinks it's time to get up.  Also, I have a 2.5 year old running around the house, so I can't constantly be in his room without keeping an eye on her.  I've also gone into observe him at the 45 minute mark a couple times, and notice that sometimes he jerks himself awake, and my guess is he just can't settle himself back to sleep.  His eyes pop open, and then his legs start kicking, and after that it's all over. 

Thanks for any guidance anyone can give!

[brenda2]

hi mkoehl and welcome to BW!
after reading your routine yesterday...was he actually awake from 4:40 to 8:15?  or did he get some catnap in there when he was being held?

i think he's Ot and his A times are too long and this is causing your short naps.

try aiming for a 1.5 hour A time first thing.  if he does a long nap again do 1.5 hours but if it's short do only an hour or even less if he's showing sleepy signs before this.  A time is all time after he wakes up until he is asleep again (incl feeds, wind down etc).  by the time he yawns it may already be too late , try looking for him looking away or getting a glazed look.

have you tried putting him back down after he wakes up early?

HTH

[mkoehl]

Thanks for the reply... he may have gotten a 10 min cat nap yesterday... I'm not sure.  But he has been awake before from 4:40 to 8:00 before... I wouldn't put it past him. 

I think that is the primary reason I'm struggling... I can't read his signs.  He yawns but is completely content.  I try and put him down, but then we end up sitting in the chair for 20 minutes until he is sleepy.

I'll try 1.5 hours today and post how that works.  Right now, he's still sleeping from the night... only got me up once at 3:00.   So his nights feel great!  I just can't do anything during the day because I don't know what he's going to do!!!  Thanks!

[mkoehl]

Ok... here's how this morning went.  He woke up at 7:25, out of his swaddle.  I was about to get him up anyway, so we called that the start of the day.  Eat, activity (on his back looking at the fan which he loves, and gets very active doing).  Then, around 8:20, I felt like he was looking away (I guess I'm not exactly sure what that means), so I took him upstairs, swaddled him, set the setting in his room, and sat down with him and read him a book (I do not show him the pictures) a few times with the pacifier.  Of course my 2.5 year old had to interupt the procedure once, so once I dealt with her, I sat down again with him.  It was about 8:38.  He started resisting my hold and kicking (which he doesn't do often), so I resisted back for a couple minutes, knowing what he was doing wasn't going to help the situation.  Finally, I gave up and put him in his crib at 8:40.  He was in there kicking around a little, and cooing, until finally he fell asleep at 8:46 completely on his own, no patting or shhing. 

He woke up at 9:21... fussing.  The cry wasn't strong, and his eyes weren't open, so I let him kinda struggle with it himself until 9:25.  That's when I started the shh patting.  Finally, at 9:55, I picked him up and shh patted him against my chest (he was crying this whole time, resisting the sleep with his voice, but not with his body).  I help him for 10 minutes, and he calmed down, and looked like he was getting sleepy.  As soon as I put him back in the crib, the crying started again, even with the shh patting.  The only thing that calms him down is giving him the pacifier (which I didn't give to him until I picked him up), but he won't keep it in his mouth. I have to hold it there for him to suck on it. 

Now, it's time to feed him again, which I will do, and then put him immediately to bed.  This is aweful!!!  How can I use the pacifier to calm him, yet not make it a prop that he depends on. 

He doesn't have a strong enough suck to keep the pacifier in for more than a minute or so, so he doesn't use his pacifer in the crib, although I know if he could keep it in, he would sleep through the 45 minute thing. 

What do you mean putting him back down after he wakes early?  Do I do the whole wind down procedure with him again, or keep him swaddled and just hold him for a couple of minutes with the pacifier. 

[KATE999]

Hi Brenda,
Thanks for your response. He does put himself to sleep as of a couple of weeks ago. It's great! I have tried the same thing as the pp to go in at 40 min and help him through the transition but he is wide awake and ready to get up so there's no point.

My routine is all over the map but here is yesterdays, which is a bit of a bad example because I had a physio appointment in the middle of the day and his sleep was disrupted but it is a typical pattern of a day without disrupted sleep (he still has 40 minute naps all day long). His sleep cue is getting fussy. He yawns at about 1 hr. 15 minutes. Then he usually sucks his fist around 1 hr 20-25 and starts little fussy noises. By 1 hr 35 he will get really fussy. He's 4 months tomorrow (I can't remember if I mentioned that?):

E: 6:00am (I normally aim for 7:00 but he went to bed early the night before so woke after the typical 12 hours to start the day)
A: 6:00-7:00am play with daddy

E: 7:00am (I fed him again because at 6:00 it was a small feed and I wanted to start the day on time. I usually try to stretch him out until 7am to feed if I can but today I couldn't because he woke very hungry)
A: 7:00-7:30 cuddle and singing (winding down)
S: 7:28 put him down in bed, talked and mantra cry until 7:50 when he fell asleep until 8:35
A: 8:35-9:20 play

E: 9:20 fed early because he was really hungry and we had to leave to go to a physio appointment
A: 10:00-10:55 go to physio appointment
S: 11:00-11:20 catnap in car on way home (I tried to keep driving to get him to stay sleeping but he woke up after 20 min)
A: 11:20-12:00 driving home, got home, tried to put down, but wasn't tired because of catnap so got him back up

E: 12:00 (this is early again, but he wouldn't settle and then took a very full feed so I know he was hungry again
A: 12:15-12:50 lie on bed, sing sogs, sit in bumbo chair
S: 1:00-1:40
A: 1:40-3:00 walk with stroller
S: tried to put down for a nap from 3:00-3:15 but was hungry so wouldn't settle

E: 3:15pm
A: 3:35-4:00 (didn't seem tired yet, so I waited for sleep cues while he happily played)
S: 4:15-4:55
A: 5:00-5:30 played with another baby friend upstairs

E: 5:30 cluster feed
A: 6:00-7:00 daddy time / bouncy chair
S: 7:10 (bedtime 7:00-7:30 when done feeding)

I'd really appreciate any input you have.
Thanks,
Kate

[KATE999]

Hi Mkoehl, I just saw your post and this is just a random thought and it might not solve your short naps problem but my DS gave up the swaddle at 11 weeks for that reason. He was kicking it off and it was waking him up. We put him in a sleep sac and I was so stressed to make that change and in the end it was the best thing we could have done. It really helped with his night waking, but not his naps. He loves his sac and sprawls out in it as far as he can go! Good luck with this...I know the short naps are frustrating.
Kate

[KATE999]

I should also mention that I know the routine I posted has him up for 2 1/2 hours in the middle of the day so he was probably OT but the day before, it looked very similar except for that he was never awake for more than 1.5 hours before I put him down for a nap and I got one 1 hr 20 minute nap first thing in the morning, and then 3 - 40 minute naps through the rest of the day. Normally he's having 4 naps a day if he has a long one and 5 if he doesn't have at least a 1.5 hour one. At 4 months, he shouldn't be having 5 naps!!! I also thought he could go longer than 3 hours without a feed. Why is he so hungry and not napping? UGH!

[brenda2]

kate...well he could be having a gs and that's why he's so hungry.  how long have you felt that he was really hungry?  if just a couple of days then it may be a gs.  if not then i wonder if you are misinterpreting his cues?  you are feeding him when he's fussy but he's fussy because he's tired?  ( i did that a lot until i started the EASY routine at 3mo).

i do think he's OT, especially if he stays awake 2 hours after such a short nap.  5 naps is fine and you should be doing 5 naps if they're all short.  at 4 mo on a 4 hour EASY he should be doing 3 naps (2 long and 1 short), but some bubs are slow to transition and if he can't stay awake 2 hours and can't last 4 hours between feeds he is probably not ready for a 4 hour EASY.

so i would try to shorten your A times and see if that helps you to get any more long naps.  once he's doing more long naps then you would want to stretch out the A time to get onto a 4 hour EASY.  but right now if he's really OT i don't think he's ready for longer A times yet.  does that make sense?

so for the first A time aim for 1 hour 45 min and then if he does a short nap shorten the next A time to 1 hour 15 min or so and see if this helps.  if another short nap do even shorter A time.  try not to feed before at least 3 hours...soon he should be going at least 4 hours and right now he's not even going 3.  and i'd cut out the cluster feed (unless you're not doing the df in which case you can keep it if it's working for you).

what do you think?

mkoehl
looking away means avoiding eye contact or not looking at toys etc.  they get tired and looking at things is too stimulating so they look away.
i wonder if he's addicted to the paci and you may have better luck if you get rid of it.  if he always uses it to sleep and needs it to transition then he's not going to do this on his own until he can replug himself or you get rid of it.
if he wakes up after 40 min crying and needs more sleep just go in and do shh pat in the crib and see if you can get him back down.  you could also try wake 2 sleep. here's a link

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64168.0

[KATE999]

I agree that he's probably getting OT. His sleep cues start at 1 hr 15 so I don't think he can go 1 hr 45. The only reason he was awake 2 hours yesterday was because of my appointment and there wasn't anything I could do about that. When I got back, and had to feed him before going down, I think that he snoozed during the feed a bit which caused him to not be tired right after he ate. He's typically awake for 1.5 hours and I'm getting short naps so I guess I should try shortening to 1 hr 15 right away. Does that sound short for a 4 month old?

It's been about a week of him being hungrier than usual and it's not every day. It's a couple days on and one off. Which could be a gs I guess because I hear they have sleepy days in there. I'm not doing a DF because it doesn't seem to make a difference. If I do it he still wakes up at the same time to feed again and I'm not convinced he's awake enough to really be BF rather than just sucking. I've been playing around with doing it and not doing it and I'm getting inconsistent results so maybe I'll try changing one thing at a time and elminate it after I'm getting on to a more consistent routine.  Thanks for your comments.
Kate

[brenda2]

kate
45 min naps can mean UT or OT, 30 min naps mean OT.  so i would try to stretch him first thing when he's fresh from the night (do 1 hour 45 min even if you see sleepy cues) and see what kind of nap you get.  if it's short then shorten the next A time but if it's long do 1 hour 45 min again.  he may be doing a short nap first because he's UT but then with the long A times after this he gets OT and also gives you short naps and by the end of t he day he's kind of cumulatively really OT from all the short naps.  kwim?

df doesn't work for everyone, do what you think is best for him.

[KATE999]

So if he's getting fussy at 1 hr 25 min, you think I should try to string him along for another 20 min? Is that because you think it's likely that he can handle that much A time at his age? It's worth a try but I'm just curious why you'd suggest that when he's obviously getting fussy earlier than that?

[brenda2]

for the first A time only  i would do this, not for all of them.  his A times are really short for his age so i'm just wondering if the first short nap he does is because he's actually undertired.  after that i do think he's OT and would shorten up the A time for sure.  but for the first one if he gets fussy at the 1 hour 25 min mark you could try stretching another 10 min and see if this helps that nap (sorry...20 min is too long to stretch him you're right).  if it does try the same A time again, if not shorten down to 1 hour.

[louloulee]

Hi,

My 8 week son seems to be cranky in the morning no matter if he wakes at 6.30 and coos til 7 before feed or wakes at 6 shh/pat sleep til 7 before feed. He seems to yawn, stare and rub his eyes almost immediately. Sometimes I will get 15 mins A time before this happens. He then crys and crys when I try every method to get him to sleep - if I'm lucky we'll get a 45 min nap but most of the time we both end up frustrated and crying!

This is generally repeated through the day until he finally has an hours sleep in exhaustion at about 3pm before he has his 4 o'clock feed.

Nights are 2-3 am feed and 5-6am. (Usually goes straight back to sleep no fuss)

Help!!! I am going crazy from lack of nap time myself and I am sure my little guy is too. I have recently increased his feed to 6oz (he's 6.2kg+) to see if that helps which he seems to want to eat...

He seems to be happy on the EASY eating part of it now (that took some time!) but not the sleeping from 7am til 5pm!!!

Any advice anyone? I read that lots of you have A time of 1hr plus - he would be horrendous if we did that - we can manage 20 mins on a good day...