HELP!!!!!

[dannabanana]

What do you do when your LO wakes up every morning at 4am and wont fall asleep for at least one hour???
i'm going crazy by now. i'm lacking so much sleep it's starting to get to me.
please help!!!

[claires mum]

Welcome to the EW club!  There's a lot of this going around.

There are a few things you can try...but I also suggest that you post your routine just incase it needs a tweak.

1)  Wake to sleep.  This is a good option for 2-3 days if he wakes at the same time every day.  You go in to his room 1 hour before he usually wakes and rouse him gently without waking him.  If you do it right, he should sleep for 2 hours more.

2)  Early to bed.  It defies logic but it can work!  Stick to a 12 - 13 hour day maximum.  So if he wakes at 4.00am, then he should be in bed between 4.00 and 5.00pm and no later.

3)  If he's not OT, make the first nap of the day later as this nap can rob from the night time sleep if it's too early.

Let me know what you think.

[dannabanana]

hi, thanks a lot for your reply!
I've started trying to wake to sleep last night (therefore was up pretty much all night long) but will continue for a few more nights and hope for the best.
i've also been trying to put him to sleep earlier because he hasn't been having such great naps either. We've started a good routine which was advised to me here, and for a while his naps were getting better and better, but it seems like i can't leave the house with him! every time i leave, it takes us back to horrible naps and crappy sleep, not to mention a cranky baby.
and the main problem is that the first nap of the day he always takes rather early (about an hour after morning feed) because of his sleepless nights. i sometimes manage to put him to sleep twice during the first nap time, if he didnt sleep enough...
this is our routine:
7:00 BF
8:00ish nap (1.5hours on a good day, but usually one hour if not less)
11:00 BF
12:00 Solids (fruit)
1:00ish nap (2 hours if i've been really good, otherwise between half an hour to an hour and a half)
3:00 BF
4:30 supposed to be catnap, which 99% of the time never happens
5:15 Solids (veggies)
6:00 bath
6:30 BF
7:00ish sleeping (sometimes an hour before sometimes an hour later, depending on how much he slept during the day and how easy it is to put him to sleep at that moment)
between 3:00am and 4:00am feeding (though now i'm thinking i shouldn't, should i?)
What am i doing wrong??

[dannabanana]

so today ended up being the same no matter what i did. 4-6am up. 6-6:45 sleep. 7 BF, 8 one hour nap, 9:30 another half hour nap. his next nap was 2 hours so i guess he is just not tired at 4:30pm because he refuses to sleep. now i dont know if i should continue and keep him up a bit or put him to sleep earlier which means that the next few meals (veggies and BF) are very close together...

[brenda2]

he sounds OT to me which is a really common cause of EWs.  and in that case i would say w2s won't work, you need to overcome the OT first.

in the routine you posted did he wake up at 7am or was he up before then with an EW?  can you post what happened yesterday with wake and sleep times?  30 min nap definitely measn OT and you need to shorten the following A time and put back to bed.  in the routine you posted he's awake over 4 hours in the middle of the day which is way too long at his age.

at 5 mo A time should be about 2 hours 15 first thing and after long naps, if after short naps then he needs a shorter A time.  fighting sleep is another sign of OT, i know it sounds contrary, but it is.

[dannabanana]

well, last night i actually managed to squeeze in another nap, after dinner instead of before. he slept for 30min, then bath BF reading a book and to bed we go. everything went well, we had our DF at around 10:30pm, and then at 2:30 he woke up, and couldnt go back to sleep until almost 4. the only good thing we got out of that is that he didnt wake up for a feeding at 4:15.
It seems to me like he always wakes up before 7. not sure if its 6:30 or rather 6:45, but he usually just plays in bed until i come (bless his heart).
I started putting him back in bed when he has too short of a nap. should the A time be about as long as the nap before it was???
The problem is also when we leave the house, he's not able to sleep for more than 30-45 minutes. he's so curious that he fights the sleep often, and gets way OT!  i'm not sure what to do with that either. today we will probably be out most of the day with him, and i really fear these days. as much as i need my out time, he needs his sleep even more. how do you teach a baby to sleep when we're out as well???
I also have a 9 hour flight this upcoming Fri, to visit my parents with him for 3 weeks. can't tell you how much i'm dreading this trip!

[dannabanana]

ok. today was, as i expected, HELL. we had to be out of the house for 5 hours. my baby slept a TOTAL of 2 hours!!!!! no, not one nap, 3 naps of 1 hour 30min and 30min!!!
i dont know what to do anymore. 

[brenda2]

be consistent with naps and the nights will get better.  the other day sounded good. 

days out are tough.  it's at about this age when some babies just do better in their cribs.  after about 7 mo with my Lo she never had another nap in her stroller.  we just planned outing for when she was awake and got home for the next nap.  it does get easier when they drop to 2 naps around 7 to 8 mo and can stay awake a bit longer.

as for the plane, we have taken many trips with our LO and it has always worked out.  she sleeps really well in the sling and so i just try to keep her on routine and try to get her down for a nap when it looks like it's time.

at 5 mo his awake time should be about 2 hours 15 min and if he does a 45 min nap i would go for 1 hour 45 min A time and if a 30 min nap 1.5 hours A time or something like that.  basically that is just a guide - really watch him around that time frame and see if he looks tired.  of course if he wakes early from a nap you should first try to put him back to sleep right away.

[dannabanana]

i always try to put him back to sleep. but like you said, at home it's just so much easier. now i have a zombie baby who is even refusing his afternoon nap now that we are finally home. i'm really confused now. i dont know if i should just put him in bed to sleep without a shower or anything and hope he sleeps, and give him 2 DF, or if i should go on as we would any other day.
I'm highly considering talking to the doctor about this, or drugging my baby with drowsing cough syrup every time we leave the house!!
 

[brenda2]

with OT you just want to get them to nap as much as possible.  if it means staying home for a few days to get it sorted out i would commit to that because once OT sets in it's really hard to get out of and it is HELL! 

if he hasn't had good naps today then don't keep him up, get him to bed!

[dannabanana]

so i tried to put him in bed yesterday but maybe he got used to the bath story time before sleep, because until we actually did that he wouldnt go to sleep. he actually fell asleep fast and with no help from us. everything was ok until 4am when he woke up. then again at 4:30. my husband went both times. he was up until 5 quiet in bed. this time when he started crying i went. i really dont know if he just smelled milk and that drove him crazy, or if he would have cried like that if my husband went again, but i had to feed him.
he finally fell asleep again at 6, but was up at 7:20. i decided to feed him again to keep the routine going. was that the right thing to do?
i will put him back in bed very soon again, and many more times today. i hope staying at home this week before out flight will help him at least catch up on his sleep.
do you think i should let my husband wake up for him? i dont think he should be hungry by now, but i dont know...
i might just be the most confused mother out there. sorry i'm spilling my guts here, but its either that or crying all day...

[brenda2]

HUGS!!

we're all confused and frustrated at times, you're not the only one for sure!

i think you did the right thing last night.  did he take a full feed each time?

let him catch up on sleep, hopefully it will help.  try to keep your routine when you're away too, but it may not happen and thats ok, you can go back at it when you get home.  just try to enjoy your holiday.  we've been on many holidays and sometimes sleep goes well and sometimes not but it all gets sorted out when we get home, so the important thing is just to enjoy your time off.

"do you think i should let my husband wake up for him? i dont think he should be hungry by now, but i dont know..."
i don't know what you mean...sorry, i'm the confused one!  i think it's a good idea to try to settle him first , especially if it's not been very long since last feed . sometimes DH can do this better because they don't expect milk from them.  but if he doesn't settle or continues with a hungry cry and it's been more than 4 hours since a feed then by all means feed him.

[texasmom]

Danna-Thanks for the link to your thread.  Could you post your most recent day?  That's the easiest for me to look at. 

[dannabanana]

well, the main problem is that a few days at home can slowly adjust him to have somewhat normal nap, but he lately wakes up in the middle of the night, and is up for about 2 hours... and whenever we spend a day out with him, his whole sleep goes down the drain.
for example, 2 days ago we had to be out of the house for about 5 hours. the days before that were really good finally, but that day he had a total of 2 hours sleep during the day, and of course night was not much fun either. then this is what yesterday looked like:

4am woke up
5am BF
6am finally fell asleep
7:20 up again, BF
8:30 Nap for an hour and 20min
11:00 BF
11:45-12:30 Nap
13:00 Solids (fruit)
14:45-15:20 Nap (after a whole hour trying to put him to sleep)
15:20 BF
17:10 Dinner (veggies)
18:00 bath
18:20 BF
18:50 sleep
22:25 DF


he was up again at 3am on and off. at 4an i BF him, and he was up again at 6. BF at 7, nap at 8 for 30min, and at 10 for another 30min. 11 BF, and at 12 he should get his fruit... i'm planning on staying home this whole week to get at least his naps back to "normal" and hope he stops waking up at night.
what do you think?? should i even fight the naps or let him be?

this is what our day used to look like before we stupidly left the house this weekend:
7:00 BF
8:00 nap 1-1.5 hours
11:00 BF
12:00 veggies
13:00ish 1.5-2hour nap
15:00 BF
17:15 supposed to catnap but would never do it
18:00 bath
18:30 BF
19:00 bed
22:30ish DF

    my dream day   

[dannabanana]

to continue today...
12:55-14:15 nap
15:00 BF
16:55-17:20 nap (was very OT)
17:30 veggies... way too late.
not sure now if i should make everything else late or just put him straight in the tub... maybe i should do that... decisions decisions decisions