How late is too late for a catnap?

[monopod]

My LO is 18 weeks and we are currently on a 3.5h EASY, trying to transition to a 4h. His naps have improved tremendously on the 3.5h routine (we were previously fighting the 45min nap monster, and before that the 30min OT demon) - he now does anywhere between 1h 10 mins and 1h 45 mins. However, because more often than not his naps don't last up to 1 h 45 mins, we've ended up doing AEAS rather than EAS. Which is fine, except that we keep ending up with him waking up a tad too early in the late afternoon and his last A time ends up a bit too long. I keep ending up with him waking early, his late afternoon feed being between 5 and 5.30, and then trying to top him up between 6.30 and 7, but that does mean he isn't asleep until 7.30 at the latest (so last A time 2h+ when the rest of the day is mostly around 1h 45 mins).

What I'm wondering is, how late is too late for a catnap? If he woke up at, say, 4 or 4.30, would it be advisable to try and get him down for a 30-min catnap at around 6 and have a slightly later bedtime (which is usually between 7 and 7.30)? If he wakes up any later than that, should I just try to get him down for the night earlier? I'm a bit concerned that this might mean him waking even earlier in the morning than he already does (he's frequently up between 6 and 6.30).

Any thoughts much appreciated

[brenda2]

as you switch to a 4 hour EASy you go to 3 naps....so you should be dropping the catnap anyway.  before you drop it you can go to a very short catnap and then a later bedtime and then after it's dropped bedtime moves earlier again.  we've never had a problem with late afternoon/early evening catnaps spoiling night sleep as long as bedtime is adjusted.

can you post your day yesterday or a typical day and i'll take a look?

[monopod]

Hi brenda, thanks for your reply   We are indeed on 3 naps at the moment but because he's been waking early, I'd wondered whether to try and sneak a short catnap in anyway to try and ensure his last A time wasn't too long.

This is what happened yesterday (all approx. timings):

A Not sure what time he woke up, but he started fussing around 0650 and I got him up. We did a quick nappy change and then on to E.
E 0700
A (A time of 2h max, more probably around 1h45-1h50mins)
S 0840 - 1035

E 1035
A (A time of just under 2h)
S 1230 - 1340 (woke early and couldn't extend nap)

A Awake from 1340
E 1400
A
S 1525 - 1655 (woke early again)

A Awake from 1655
E 1710 (fed a little early so as to squeeze in a top-up later)
A
E 1845
S Asleep by 1920 (last A time too long as you can see).

We then had several NWs which I'm trying to sort out at the moment (one of the possible reasons I'm exploring is OT). If you need details of all the NWs I can supply them

[brenda2]

since he can do just about 2 hours A time easily ans still have longer than 45 min naps i think he's ready to go straight onto a 4 hour EASY.  you can go gradually over the next week if you want.  this may be why he is having NWs too - he's ready for more A time during the day.  a 1 hour nap indicates he wasn't tired enough to take a longer nap, so this is another reason i think he could do a bit more A time.

typical 4 hour EASY:
7 awake and feed
9-11 sleep
11 feed
1-3 sleep
3 feed
5-5:45 sleep
6:30 feed
7 bedtime

so in this case you are increasing A time to 2 hours and dropping a feed.  he should have 4 feeds during the day plus the dreamfeed.

stretch his a time by 10 min every 3 days.  if he wakes early from a nap then you have to reduce the following A time.  if he does a 1.5 hour nap i would still do a 2 hour A time following it, but if he does a 45 min nap (which means either Ot or UT) then reduce the following A time to 1.5 hours and if he does a 30 min nap (which means OT) then reduce the following A time to 1 hour 15 min this is if you can`t get him straight back to sleep.

if he does short naps for you then you need another nap in there to make sure he gets enough total sleep. but if he is doing 1.5 hour naps during the day you don`t.  bedtime can always come a bit earlier to compensate so he doens`t have too long a stretch.  too long A time before bed can also lead to NWs.

[monopod]

Brenda, thanks so much for that. There are so many possibilities that I've been considering in trying to deal with his NWs but I guess this may be as good a place to start as any, particularly as he's the right age for it. I'm currently wondering about dummy addiction but I think transitioning to a 4h EASY may be less painful as a first port of call 

I had been holding off as I thought that his naps weren't long enough yet but your explanation of the 1h(+) nap does make sense (does it make any difference if he is waking a bit cranky though?? I had thought that that meant he hadn't had enough sleep??) . Another concern I had had was that he sometimes seems to me to be tired before the 'time is up', but maybe the length of his naps belies that?

What do you think about his morning nap already being after about 2h A time (and still being a shorter nap)?

[monopod]

Well, we've had an interesting day! After waking at 4.45am and taking 15 minutes to get back down to sleep (DH was on night-time duty and eventually gave him his dummy), LO finally woke at around 7.15am, which is quite late for him. We had breakfast and his sleepy signs started right on cue around the 1h45min mark. He was fast asleep at almost exactly the 2h mark, and then he slept for nearly 2h   

The next cycle wasn't so great as we had to go out - again he fell asleep, this time in his buggy, again at almost exactly the 2h mark, but unfortunately he woke when we arrived at our next destination, only 30 minutes later. He was then up for longer than he should have been, especially after such a short nap - total A time around 2h 20 minutes. He fell asleep again on the way home in the car, and as often happens he woke when we got home just 20 mins later... but I managed to get him down again within 15 minutes. It's now nearly 5.30pm and he's been asleep since 4.40pm, so methinks it's time to get him up (I've let him sleep a little longer than I would normally with the catnap given that he only had a 30min sleep during the earlier part of the afternoon - I hope this was ok).

I know today wasn't such a good guide given that his routine was disrupted by the trips, but I think we are going to get on fine with the 4h EASY

[brenda2]

sounds great! 

i think you did the right thing.  if he did a long nap first then a couple of short naps then i would let him have a long one for  the 3rd nap and adjust bedtime accordingly - probably 2 hours after he gets up from the long nap.

keep it up!

[monopod]

Thanks Brenda

We had a rubbish night last night but that's another saga entirely I will persevere!