Not sure if 2 year old is OT or UT - please help?

[campbellchick]

My DS has suddenly started having EW's and I'm not sure what is causing them .  He is in full-time daycare as DH and I both work 5 days a week, so the maximum amount of nap time he gets there is about 1.15hrs and is often from 45 mins - 1hr.  He used to sleep for at least 1.5hr - 2hr naps at home and he still often does on the weekends.  He has always been on the low end of the A times.  At daycare he is in the Toddler Room, so is sleeping on the mats on the floor, but I think it might be due to the distractions of the other kids waking from their naps and getting up that he doesn't sleep for longer.

We don't get home until close to 6pm and then we have dinner and bath to get through before I can put the kids down.  His bedtime is generally at 7pm, but it is about 7.15pm or slightly later by the time we've gone through the bedtime routine and have read a book (or three).  Over the past week and a half, he has been waking up at 6am whereas he used to wake up at 6.45am - 7am.

At first I thought maybe he was ready for a later bedtime?  He just doesn't seem even slightly tired at 7pm anymore - he is almost wound up.  But that also leds me to believe maybe it is just an OT thing too? 

OR - I have just thought of another theory.  I wonder if he is waking due to hunger?  He often comes home from daycare starving, so we give him dinner straight away at 6pm.  Then we used to give him a cup of milk right before bed - so about 6.45pm, but as he wasn't drinking much of it, I've just cut this out in the last week or so.  do you think maybe this would have anything to do with it?  He really only used to drink not even half of the milk before bed, generally because he is still full from dinner.

Any thoughts/advice is greatly welcomed as I am not sure which way to go with his bedtime.

thanks in advance, Kerrie

[clazzat]

I would think that he is o/t - daycare is incredibly exhausting for them as there is so much going on, and combined with the shorter sleep it's likely to lead to o/t.  Our 23-month old is the same - she sleeps 2-2.5 hours at home but a maximum of 1.5 hours at nursery.  She is completely wiped out wiped out by the time she gets home - although this tends to manifest in extreme naughtiness!  Bedtime is VERY early on nursery day!    If it's at all possible, I would suggest that you try putting him to bed earlier to see if it helps.

As for the hunger thing, it is a very long time since the amount dd eats during the day has had an impact on her overnight sleep - my experience would suggest that they have grown out of it by this age.  It's possible that he is missing the comfort of milk last thing, though.

HTH.  Cx

[Vicku]

Hugs Kerrie!
We're going through almost exactly the same thing with DD since she started daycare about a month ago. If he's getting a lot less hrs of sleep/day now then it's quite likely OT. A lot of people suggest earlier bedtimes to catch up and reduce EW so if it's at all possible maybe try that (on a weekend if not possibel on a week night) Also if bath time makes it harder to get to bed in time, we sometimes skip it and do a morning bath/shower instead. Maybe that could work? My DD doesn't seem tired either usually, only if extremely tired and way beyond OT, so not even if OT then she just seems wound up like your LO.
Hunger could be an issue if he doesn't eat much at daycare. We've also had that issue and I've wonderend if that could be the cause of some EW? Who knows?
Let me know how you're getting on though hun! xxxxxxxx Vick

[campbellchick]

Thanks so much for your responses  .  My gut feel is OT and especially since he has always needed a lot of sleep...  It is really difficult to get him to bed early through the week, but maybe I need to slow our weekends down a little and allow him to catch up sleep.  We've been looking at houses to buy for the last few weekends and of course, this has totally interferred with naps 

Good thinking on the comfort of the milk too  .  Although he does settle pretty quickly without it, but as he has always just adjusted to most things so easily, I think I just stopped doing it, then didn't think any more about it  .  How naughty of me - I thought my baby brain was disappearing, but maybe not...  OH and I have noticed that DS is getting naughtier and naughtier lately, which is very out of character for him, so maybe his OT is spiraling out of control?  Last night he was so OT, but completely hyper and being very naughty and he bit his sister on the toe  , so it was straight to bed for him at 6.30pm - he screamed for about a minute and must of passed out and we didn't hear from him again until 6am this morning.

Vick, sorry to hear you are going through the same thing.  Big hugs to you.  It is hard.  How is your dd coping with daycare?  It really is a lot of stimulation for them.  My two really love it though, which makes me feel a little better about leaving them there 5 days a week.

I think I'll start aiming for an earlier bedtime (even if it is by 15 mins each night) and quieter, catchup on sleep, weekends and we'll see how we go.  I hope your LO's both do well at daycare and we can all break the OT cycle.  I'll let you know how we get on.  Thanks again 

[Katet]

Second the OT... hyped up in the evening pretty much always means OT around here.

[campbellchick]

Well, we put DS to bed last night at 6.30pm, he wasn't happy, but think he only cried for a few minutes, then he was out.  It is now 6.20am and after a waking at 5.30am (DH covered him back up with the blankets, so he was probably cold), he is still sleeping  .  He hasn't slept pass 6am for at least a week now, if not longer... 

It is funny how hindsight is so 20/20.  Just looking back on his behaviour, particularly over the last 4 or so days, I should have known that it was definitely OT.  He is normally such a good, well behaved child (angel/textbook) and he has just been quite naughty lately and getting worse.  I knew he wasn't getting enough sleep, but sometimes these things don't sink in with me until we are well into it  .  Too much going on now that I am back at work full-time....

Anyway, enough of poor me - but I'll continue to keep trying to get him to bed and asleep as close to 7pm as possible through the week, then hopefully if I give him a chance, he will start taking the long naps on weekends again to catch up.

Vick, how has your dd been going lately?

[lin7604]

oh this is all so familiar.  I think you answered my thread......  my ds too is 23 months and will be 2 on the 24th.  He started daycare on sept 2nd and too used to sleep 1.5-2hrs at home, at daycare i get 45-1hr max. I too have been doing the bedtimes of 7pm when he doesn't get over 1hr nap and it is hard some nights to get home adn cook dinner and put him to bed.  I have had to skip baths quite often, giving him a quick wipe down in the am instead....  today he had a wonderful 2hr nap till 3:15 so bed will be between 8-8:30! yah..... only to see what happens 2 morrow....  i do find he doesn't eat or drink enough either at daycare and gets very naughty once we get home!  he always starving and so thirsty!!!! plus OT!  i am truing not to go past 6hr A time ever and try to do 5.5 but it doesn't always happen depening on what time he wakes at daycare.... yesterday unfornately he only had a 45 min nap in the car ( we were far away from home) and was up by 12:30 b/c he woke up at 5:45 am!!!! i put him to bed at 7 and he was sleeping for 7:20 but the good thing was he didn't wake early like i thought and slept till 6:30..... they always surprise you, when i prepare for a EW he sleeps normal even though he had a huge A time and was OT?

[campbellchick]

Hi Lin - yes I did answer your thread too.  I know exactly what you mean  .  I think I could have written just what you wrote!

My ds also comes home starving and very thirsty too.  He was asking for water on the way home from daycare today  .  I also think some of his naughtiness in the evenings has been due to being so hungry.  DH gets so mad at him because some nights he just whinges until we give him dinner (which we obviously try to do as soon as we get in the door, but it takes a few minutes), but I have to remind DH that he is only little and he is just soooo hungry that he can't help it.  We'd probably whinge that much too if we were starving but couldn't get our own food. 

Anyway, I hope your week goes okay.  I am going to have to make a big effort to keep our next few weekends very quiet so he can catch up on his sleep.  Tonight I also made sure he was down in bed and had finished reading just after 7pm, then of course, he was still awake at around 7.20pm or so  .  We'll see what time he wakes up tomorrow morning now  .

Let us know how you get on through the week.

[lin7604]

will do!  mine had a great nap yesterday 2hrs, so i figured that bedtime was between 8-8:30.  SO at 8pm we started to read storiesd and he was in bed by 8:15, sleeping at 8:20.  I guess i should of made sure he was in bed for 8pm as he woke at 5:50 this am!!!!  I guess OT? see and yesterday i was up 6.5hrs A time and he slept from 7:20-6:30??? go figure, i can never figure it out!

[clazzat]

They just like to keep us on our toes!  My dd was awake at 5.20 this morning - but not up because I'm really mean and wouldn't let her get up until 6.55! - so I am looking forward to her being in bed before 6.30!  She has behaved appallingly all morning though - not sure how the afternoon is going to go.

Hope things are going well for you guys today.

[Vicku]

Hi again!
This all sound so familiar to our situation! The short naps at daycare, the hunger and the thirst! She often asked me for water as soon as we left after I picked her up so I asked them to make sure she had more water through the day and it's been a little better since.
DD only goes Tue, Thu and Fri, all long days 9-5ish, so at least she can catch up a bit on the days she's home. we've done some earlier bedtimes when it's seemed she was very OT but we are a bit careful as the early bedtimes used to backfire a lot with her. Works for most kids apparently but DD sleeps maximum 10/10.5 hrs at night (VERY rarely 11hrs if extremely tired) so it's hard as she'll wake after that time and then EWs get worse
Hope this week will go well for you all!
Kerry, we are also looking at houses, seeing one today in an hr.

[lin7604]

i hear you about the early bedtime back firing too.  my ds keeps me on my toes not knowing if a early bedtime is going to work or not as some days they do wonders and the next it back fires!!!  this am he was up at 5:50am which was his 10.5 hrs max!!! he normally also does 10hrs at night.  he used to do 2 day time adn 10 night time and all was good, now with only 1hr daytime adn 10 night, he lacking in the sleep dept!  He once again only slept 1hr today and he went down earlier ar daycare and it made no difference!

[Katet]

What about having something like cut up veg or fruit that he could eat in the car, I used to give my ds1 fruit,veg & 100% corn crackers to eat on the way home when he was about 13-21mo as we had a 1hour drive home from daycare & he was often hungry & tired, they generally had hot lunches & as it was over spring summer, I kind of thought we'd just not worry about dinner those nights. I still always have drink bottles in the car with us if we go anywhere more than 1/2hour, I get ratty very quickly when I'm thirsty so I recon it would be the same for children.

[lin7604]

good idea, but for me if i give him something then he won't eat at dinner time..... at all!!! and he already is a terrible eater! he would live off crackers if i let him!  the juice box thing i think i will do though, good idea on that!

[Katet]

See I don't actually worry if my boys eat healthy food at a non meal time & then don't eat dinner, I've actually found that until recently they eat worse at dinner etc if I try to make them wait for meals & are over-hungry, but I if offer them cut up fruit or veg peices when they say they are hungry & then they are less grumpy overall & eat it, try to get them to eat say veg at dinner when they are tired no go & we end up in a downward spiral. Kind of like if I skip a meal I look for junk to eat & you may find he wants to live off crackers because he is overhungry & they give him the blood sugar boost... I've found by the time my boys are saying they are hungry they are over hungry & pick the carb options... just a thought