limited success; suggestions needed on how to move on

[Shanti]

Dear all,
This forum has been such a great sourse of ideas and support to me, and now I'd like to
ask for some specific suggestions.
Our daughter is 11.5 months. We started teaching her to fall asleep in
the crib (using PU/PD) a few weeks ago (before that it was always on the
breast or after a lot of rocking). We had improvement after ~1-2 weeks.
For the last months or so I've been able to put her in her crib and eventually she'd fall asleep. As part of our sleep plan we also went from 2 to only 1 night-time feeding.
However, it usually takes 30-40 min of me standing there next to her, patting
her back, resettling her when she stands up, and very occasionally
picking her up if she gets upset. When I leave the room she cries and
I always come back within a few minutes (otherwise it escalates, she becomes hysterical, and
then I have to pick her up and console her). She also wakes up at least 3-4
times at night. I feel that we're stuck - nothing changes, it's not taking less time
for her to settle, I can't get her to sleep without me standing next to her crib, my husband continues having trouble putting her to
sleep, she keeps waking up at night. I'm trying to decide what to do
next?
Please share your thoughts and experiences!
Thanks so much,
Natalie

[coopers_mommy]

Hi Shanti,

First I know anyone else who helps with ideas might want to see your EASY routine.  Can you post it?

We had the same issues with DS when he was under 1 yr.  He was used to falling asleep on the breast.  DS though is a spirited child and we new that standing there with him would never work.  We decided to do WIWO with him.  For some reason even patting his back would stimulate him more than help him settle. 

Have you tried WIWO?  It can take a few nights of about an hour or so before your LO catched onto the fact that when Mom or Dad walk out, it is time to go to sleep.  Also do you have a bedtime routine for her now that you are no longer BF'ing her down?  We have a very extensive routine, but it really helps DS setttle down before bedtime and it allows DH to read to him right before bedtime so that DS is used to DH putting him to bed as well (for the nights that I can get away! ) 

Concerning the night feeding.  Are you wanting to eliminate that one?  We had to around a yr because I couldn't go back to sleep for at least 2 hours each night.  It really helped both of our sleep in the end. 

HTH

[yaya]

Hi there! Are you familiar with the wi/wo method? I think 11.5 months is a little old for pu/Pd and maybe your prescence is hindering her falling asleep independently at this stage as she is more prone to be overstimulated by it

[deckchariot]

I totally agree with previous posts about wi/wo - pu/pd and staying in the room just didn't work with Abby when she got older.  Also, keep in mind that she's had 11.5 mos of needing you to put her to sleep, that habit will not break easily.  Here's a link that may be helpful:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0

[Shanti]

Thanks so much for the responses! After reading the forum and your advice, I think WI/WO is our next step... Ok, so her day is usually like this:
6-6:30am wake up
7am whole organic milk (~3.5oz) from a sippy cup
~going for a walk or doing something with Dad~
8am breakfast (usually yogurt w/applesauce)
~8:50-9:15 begin sleep routine
(slowly walk to her room, change diaper, wrap in blanket, read books for 10-20min, a short nursing, a lullaby, walk quietly with her for a minute or less, put in crib sleepy but awake)
then ~30min (on an average day) stand there helping her down when she stands up and/or gets in her downward dog pose, patting her back, or just standing there when she's settling. As soon as I sneak out, she stands up and cries. If I turn away and pretend to read, she stands up and calls me.
~9-9:45am falls asleep for ~1h
11am snack (fruits or veggies)
(at thes point the nanny is here, they go for a walk in the yard, talk and clean up)
~12:30-1pm dinner (usually veggies, buckwheat kasha or some puffed corn or millet, fish and/or cheese, sometimes chicken)
~1:30pm start bedtime routine (same as in the morning but no nursing)
2pm falls asleep for 2 h
~4pm whole organic milk (~3.5oz) from a sippy cup
activity time - go for a walk, to the park, meet with friends, playdate, etc
~5:20-5:40 supper (usually oatmeal cereal with banana, or something similar to what she had for lunch; fruit)
after supper: go for a walk, ~30min, usually she walks (holding my hand), rather than going in a stroller. Then some quiet play at home.
~6:30pm (bath, not every day)
~6:45pm start bedtime routine (same as in the morning).
~7:30 to 8pm falls asleep

And yes, I'm ready to eliminate breastfeeding, especially in the middle of the night.
What do you think?
 

[deckchariot]

I"m thinking she can probably handle a longer A time  - especially in the am.  Although, she's getting 3 hrs of day sleep a day, which is great for her age, so if it's working, don't switch up the routine.  However, if wi/wo doesn't seem to have much effect after 3 - 4 days of doing it, I"d start stretching that first  A time.  It's hard to know if her difficulties with falling asleep are due to breaking the prop  of having you put her to sleep, or if she's just not tired enough or if it's both.

[Shanti]

hm... She seems pretty tired before both her naps and at bedtime. When she is having most difficulties falling asleep, she actually seems to cry out of frustration of not being able to sleep when she's so tired...
  I'll have to wait with WI/WO for a few days since Anna got a slight cold. But that will be the first thing we try once she gets better.

I've been wondering, when you calculate how many hours your little ones sleep at night, do you just go from the time they fall asleep till the time they wake up for the day, or do you actually subtract the times they spent waking up during the night? I know, ideally the two numbers would be the same, but it's still not so in our case...

[deckchariot]

definitely wait til she gets better to do wi/wo...hope she's feeling better quickly!

night sleep - I only subtract NW time if it's long (more than 15ish min), otherwise, I don't bother.

[Shanti]

thanks!
i'm starting to introduce the idea of WO. I still spent most of the time next t oher crib, helping her to settle, but I do WO a few times for 10 sec if she's crying. It seems that she's getting used to the idea that I might be outside, but it's not the end of the world. I am hoping to gradually decrease the time I stay in...

[deckchariot]

well done!!!  That sounds like a wonderful plan!!  Hang in there - you can do this

[Shanti]

Ok, here we are, over a month later...
WI/WO worked for us! Sometimes Anna would settle down completely by herself - I'd just walk out after our routine and that's it! She also slept 7-8, sometimes more hours without calling for us. I felt like a new person! I'm writing in the past tense because for the last week it all fell apart (like 7 wakings/night!!!) due to a slight cold and possibly a new tooth coming. Today, however, she feels fine again, and I started wi/wo again. Took an hour, but she did fall asleep with me outside. Hope she'll remember how to sleep soon!
And BTW it seems that she's transitioning to 1 nap/day.
Thank you all for your support!

[deckchariot]

sooooooooo glad you posted an update!!! And glad that you had success with wi/wo.  sorry it's all gone pear shaped again - being sick, cutting a tooth and transitioning to 1 nap can all mess up sleep.  You're doing a great job!!  Feel free to "pay it forward" when you see other moms in a similar situation - they will be very encouraged by your success.