20 min naps for 4 days!

[lilflav]

Hello all, dd is now 9.5 months old, 8.5 months adjusted.  She started napping for shorter & shorter amounts of time at 4 months.  It has been mostly 30 min naps since about 5-6 months.  The last two weeks were a little better, I was getting 1.5 hours naps once a day most days.  Now this week  she has gone totally backward!  Mon. She took a two hours nap in the morning, then a 20 min nap in the afternoon. Since then all her naps are 20-30 min (maybe some were 15 min, I didn't time them all)!  I  don't get it!  In the morning I aim for about 2hr50 A time, since all the times I got a good naps that was how long she was up.  Then I aim for about 2-2.5 hrs depending on sleepy cues.  A couple of weeks ago, and every now & then since she seems to be getting really tired very early.  Like 40min-1.5 hrs.  I put her down & she settles nicely when she seems tired this early on.  I have no idea what is going on & why she is taking such short naps!  I just don't understand why her sleep habits seem to be so much out of the norm & so erratic!  HELP PLEASE!

[lilac83]

Is she teething? This will throw a schedule WAY off course (as I learned last week!). By 9.5 months (or even 8.5 with her adjusted age) she should be on a solid 2 nap schedule. Meaning, she should be having at least 3 hours A time between naps. So it looks like you're on the right track with that first A time. If she's been a short napper pretty much her entire life though, I wonder if she could go around 3 hours even on a 30 minute nap. If you would like to post your routine that may help a bit.

[lilflav]

Hello, thanks for the reply.  I had another 20 min nap today.  Our schedule has been a little different lately, she seems to not be settling herself as early lately.  Yesterday & today I tried to put her down like normal, but she just played for a while, then cried to come out.  I finally got her to settle herself at 3hr 40 min.  I haven't been writing down her schedule so I don't know what she has been doing exactly.  But I usually aim for close to 3 hrs in the am, then 2-2.5 hrs thereafter (longer if she naps longer, but that is the exception).  I will write down her schedule for a few days and get back to you.  This weekend she is going to my dads so I will start Mon.

I really hope to get this situation worked out, I was really hoping it would have been by now.  I've been trying everything, and I feel like no matter what I try it never gets better.  I don't know if what I do is wrong and I am misreading cues or something  Thanks again. 

[lilac83]

I was just thinking too that she's really close to the age when the 2-1 nap transition can start. I wonder if that's part of what's going on, especially seen as she's never been a very good napper to begin with. Let me know how the next few days pan out. Here's a link of info on the 2-1, see what you think:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=95670.0

[lilflav]

Hello again.  I haven't gotten any 20 min naps since, but I did get a 28 min nap today.  So here is what seems to be the schedule we aim for, but it does vary.

W-8
S-10:50 
A-11:20
S-1:50
A-2:10
S-4:30-5
A-5-5:30
S-~8

This is a rough schedule as my dd's naps vary.  They are usually only 30 min though.  Her A times seem to vary too.  Like today she seemed tired early So I put her down after 2hr10 min for her first nap which was 30 min.  Then she didn't seem tired for 3 hrs, but she took an hour nap. Some days she is tired sooner & I manage 4x30 min naps.  And some nights she wakes at 7am.  Also it seems this week I have another problem- she finally decided to roll over.  I put her down to nap & come back to check on her and she is on her tummy climbing up the bars!  Hopefully that will stop soon.  Any advice anyone has will be appreciated, I've been trying to figure this out for so long & figure I must be doing something wrong! Thanks!

Lilac-does this apply to chronic 30 min nappers too?  I'm afraid soon she really will be down to two 30 min naps, then one 30 min nap a day.

[lilac83]

Hi!

You said in your first post that you tried extending A times. When did you last try this and how long did you keep trying? Since she's almost 10 months old it wouldn't be uncommon for her to be having 3.5-4 hour A times. What sort of cues does she give you when you put her down for nap? Usually when a LO drops naps the other naps get better even if they don't entirely make up the lost nap, particularly when they go from 2-1 nap. Hopefully your LO will be the same as 30 minutes of day sleep definitely wouldn't be enough! The 30 minute nap is usually said to be OT but I wonder if it's actually UT with your LO. Obviously she's on the low end of sleep needs, so she probably won't ever take 2 X 2 hour naps but 2 X 1 hour naps shouldn't be impossible.

What do you think about trying something like this:
8:00 - wake
11:00-12:00 - nap 1
3:30-4:30 - nap 2
8:00 - bedtime

Even if she wakes after 30 minutes, leave her in her crib for the next 30 minutes or do PU/PD for the remaining 30 minutes if she wakes crying. Then try to keep her up until as close to the next naptime as possible and do the same if she wakes after 30 minutes. What do you think?

[lilflav]

Thanks for the reply Lilac!  If both naps are 30 min should I add another nap, should I add another nap later? I am scared of making a bad situation worse! I extended a times I guess 2 months ago, and haven't shortened  since, only when she is fussy & obviously tired early do I shorten them. Actually they are longer since she is older & I have always gone by her adjusted age.  I did think maybe she needs less sleep, but on the rare occasion that she does  sleep like a normal baby (up to 2 napsx1.5hrs + 1 30min) she will sleep 12 straight at night.   

 The sleepy cues can vary- sometimes it is just a general slowing down & eyes get smaller, others (usually later in the day) it's just in the way she fusses.  If we are approaching the 3 hour mark I usually just go ahead & put her down. 

About the 30 min=ut/ot thing, I sometimes think her naps are like russian roullette.  Sometimes she seems tired after 2.5 hrs & I can get a good nap, other times not- like last week DF put her down after 4 hrs a time & got a 1.5 hr nap.  I think I have the most unpredictable sleeper of any baby ever!!  I was thinking her 30 min naps are ot due to poor sleep over such a long period of time, not long A times. 

I am going to try this for a few days and report back! Thanks.

[lilac83]

Let me know how it goes. As far as trying to squeeze in another 30 minute nap later in the day, I guess just see how she is. If she really seems to need it then go ahead and give it to her, otherwise try to get her to last till that next nap time. Hopefully if you can get her to wait she'll be tired enough that even if she does wake after 30 minutes, she'll go back to sleep with a little PU/PD. Then after a few days of that, hopefully she'll get used to the 1 hour naps and perhaps nap even longer. If it is an accumulation of OT, getting longer naps will be the ideal way to fix it.

Good luck!

[lilflav]

Hello, it's been almost a week that I've been giving this a try and I have some good & some bad.  I have gotten more long (1hr-1hr47min) am naps than I had since she was 4 month!  I know most babies need a shorter am A time then in the afternoon, but I wonder if mine needs a shorter afternoon A time.  For so long I shortened her A times after her first nap because of her 30 min naps, so maybe she is just used to it now.  It seems that 3 hrs first A time is good, but the last two A times are too long.  I've also tried shortening the second to three hours & putting her down early for bed at about 2.5-3 hrs.  So the bad news is because of the too long A times I have been having horrible night wakings.  At 3.5 hrs a time she was waking up after 1 hr some nights!  Now we are down to about 2-3 wakings, where before lengthening a times it was usually one early waking.  Our schedule has roughly looked like this:

8:00        Wake
11:00      Nap
12-12:30 Wake- sometimes a little longer, some 30 min still  
3-3:30     Nap -or about 3 hrs after waking
3:30-4     Wake-30 min, try to extend and will fall asleep but wake shortly after, try until 5. Sometimes I rock  back to sleep to            .             hopefully curb nws
7-8          Bed-About 2.5-3 hrs after waking the last time.  She seems happy doing a 12-13 hr night.

I am not sure if I should keep two naps like this, and hope her body will adjust and eventually lengthen the pm nap, or if I should put in a third nap (I don't even see where I could put one in).  I also feel she is ready for a  pm nap earlier then this, but have no idea how to do this yet.  There is too many hrs in the day!  Maybe I should keep  it where it is & her body will get used to the a times?  I guess at best w/in 2 months she should be having one long nap & one short nap, & hopefully she will keep the long nap.  Thanks for any input!

[lilac83]

It is a bit tricky because she really doesn't need that 3rd nap anymore and it's almost impossible to squeeze one in because of the length of A times. I think if you keep trying to shorten her A times to squeeze in a 3rd nap this will just encourage her to keep up the short naps. If you think she's having OT problems with that second nap try putting her down about 10 minutes earlier and see what happens. She should definitely get used to the longer A times and longer naps soon. She's been sort of a "nap snacker" most of her life so it may take a bit of time to get her used to staying up longer and sleeping better for nap. Keep up the good work, there's definitely been progress!

[lilflav]

Hello again.  We are still getting 20 min naps!  Any ideas on what these mean?  Do I just have to deal with them?

Anyway, I just wanted to update on where are.  I had to go back to 3 naps/day if they are all 30 min.  Her nights were just so horrible, she was up every hour at one point & I just couldn't deal with it.  I'd rather all 30 min naps & a decent nights sleep.  So as soon as she had less a time her nights got better.  We have had some longer naps (2h10min yesterday!) and then we do 2 naps.  It seems her first A time she is able to go quite long, thereafter her a times are very short.  Last night after her 2+hr nap I gave her a bath and she put her head down on my leg she was so tired.  and this was only after 2 hrs A time!  Does anyone have any ideas for me? Thanks!

[lilac83]

How long of an A time is she getting now in the morning? Usually I count 20 minute naps as OT. However, I find it hard to believe that at 9.5 months (probably over 10 months now, right?) she would be getting OT on 2-3 hours of A time! Even taking her adjusted age into consideration. How is she eating throughout the day?

[lilflav]

The am A time is about 3-3.5 hrs.  Thereafter I try for about 2.5 hrs, but somedays she can't make it.  Today her first nap was 20 min, she was on & off fussy, then very obviously tired at 1.5 hrs I put her down and she slept for 1hr10min. 

Wake-7:45-8:30
Eat- 8-8:30-nurse
Solids- ~10:30 w/ some breast milk in sippy
Sleep- 11-12 depending on cues & when woke

Then she has been waking anytime between 11:20-2.  I nurse her at  about 12:30-1 or when she wakes.  Obviously we have no sleep schedule thereafter.  It just depends on when she woke & her sleepy cues & time until bedtime.  I offer her milk about 3-4 (depending if she woke later or not, and isn't usually a full nursing), solids at 5-5:30, nurse before bed 7-7;30.  She usually eats once in the night too.   She also has some snacks during the day.

I think my los sleep is a huge mystery.  It has no rhyme or reason.  Maybe in the morning I will try to keep a closer eye on when she actually wakes & sleep cues.  Thanks for your help. 

[lilac83]

Yeah, based on what you're saying those 20 minutes are OT naps. I would definitely keep a very close eye on her and as soon as you see (or even think you see) a tired cue, off to bed. The A time can decrease throughout the day with some LO's and it appears that is the case with yours. So if she's doing 3 hours first then she'd probably only be able to go 2.5-2.75 for the second and third. Perhaps try lessening that second A time by 20 minutes of whatever the first A time was if she takes a good first nap.