4.5 months - help with A time

[judypdx]

Hi!  My LO is now 4.5 months on a 3.75-4hr EASY. She goes down easily for naps, but has a hard time settling for bedtime.  Sometimes it takes as long as a hour for her to drift off and I would have to put my hand on her or do a small amt of PU/PD.  I would like to get some advice on A time.

After the last catnap of the day, what should the A time be?
We've been doing 1.5hr.  I can't seem to get this A time right.

If she skips her last catnap(tossing and turning in bed for 40 mins instead of napping or trying to roll over), how long should I wait to put her to bedtime?
I've been giving her 15 mins activity to calm down and so at least DH can see her, then feed for 20mins, and 15 mins to digest and wind down for bed.  She is usually OT if she misses her catnap because her A time at this point is close to 3 hrs. 

If she takes a 45 min morning or afternoon nap, what should her A time be?  I cannot get her to do two naps between a feed and have been giving her 1.5-1.75hr A time after a short 45 min nap..wondering if that's too long of an A time.

She's on a 8am-8pm(+- 30 minutes) schedule so my DH can see her, is 6:15pm too late for a catnap? On days with a short 45 min morning or afternoon, her bedtime is 7:15-7:30pm.

Thank you!

Judy

[* Paula *]

I would say that 1.5 hours A time before bed is perfectly fine, but if your lo has had shorter naps through the day, this could cause her to become OT, and this is why she is finding it hard to settle at night.

If she skips her cat nap, then I would aim for her to be in bed earlier.  So generally if she sleeps from 4:45 - 5:30 as a cat nap and goes to bed at 7:00pm, then I would aim for her to be in bed by 6:00pm, if she refuses the cat nap, so that she does not get OT.

If she only has 45 mins during the day I would aim for about 1.5 hours A time before putting her down for her next nap.

Is your lo constantly having 45 minute naps?  This is generally a sign that your lo is ready to extend their A time.

Can you post your routine on how it looks now, so that we can have a look at it for you.

E
A
S

[judypdx]

Hi Paula!  Thank you so much for the reply!

Her E is 8am,12pm,4pm,7pm,11pm dream feed. This is pretty consistent.  However, her S and A time are all over the map depending on how long her naps are.

 
This is our BAD day today(I'm scared what the night will bring since she decided to skip her CN)

Previous day - good nap day and excellent night STTN from 8:30pm-8:ooam with 11pm dreamfeed

E:8am
A:
S:10-12:15pm(2hr15min)
E:12:15pm
A:
S:2:20-3:10pm(~45min)
A:
E:4pm
CN: 4:40pm (rolled around, cry a bit and shh/pat and PU/PD did not work as she ended up squealing and playing by herself until 5:40) she did not sleep!
 so....
at 6:00pm I feed her and put her to bed at 6:30pm; with some crying and PU/PD, asleep by 6:44pm.

What do to in this scenario?  This happens once a week.

Frustrated,
Judy

[* Paula *]

We always did everything in our power to get our DD to take a cat nap so that she would not end up getting OT. 

Have you tried her in a sling or in the pram?

I used to let DD fall asleep on me, just so that she would not get OT.

[judypdx]

Hi Paula - the only tool we have to get her to sleep is sshh/pat and PU/PD.  No props.

My LO and I both have bags under our eyes.    Could it be chronic OT? She yawns and rubs her eyes all day long. Yesterday, my DH and I thought we had a great day(she took her naps and settled easily for bed) so we were looking forward to a good night.  Of course, that did not happen - she got up at 2:30am, 4am,6am(that many NW is unusual).   With so many NW, should her routine the next day be adjusted? 

Thanks! I'm so grateful for this site, I'm going to lose my mind otherwise.

p.s. My DH and I were so exhausted from the night, so much that this morning when DH stirred, I started to 'shhhhh' immediately and pat him in my sleep.

[judypdx]

She skipped her catnap again.   

She took an afternoon nap from 2-3:30pm and started yawning and rubbing her eyes after the 4pm feed.  Should I have put her down for another nap ~4:15pm even though A time would be super short?   If I follow her sleeping cues instead of time, her day would just be ESESES...  What to do...

[sanaya]

p.s. My DH and I were so exhausted from the night, so much that this morning when DH stirred, I started to 'shhhhh' immediately and pat him in my sleep.

lol. been there.

may i suggest u first take care of the ot issue. i would have put her down for a short nap, and let her catch up on sleep.
babies sleep better at night when they are rested during the day. sleep begets sleep. does that make sense.
strollers are great. yesterday i was so out of it and did not have the energy to put lo down for the last catnap, i asked a friend to take him out in the stroller and stay with him till his nap was done. 30 mins.
my lo is 4.5 months old too. day A time is 1.5 hours, and longest A time is the morning. 1 hr .45 min. sometimes if he is ot, he will not sleep before 1.5 A time so i just sit in the dark room with him and stroke his arms legs and calm him down...nothing stimulating. then i swaddle and put to sleep.
hope that helps.

we are here for you. i felt the same way as you when i started posting. you will find alot of support here.

[judypdx]

Hi sanaya - Thank you for the reply! 

Can I get some advice on how to correct the OT?  She had lots of NW last night and this morning she woke at 7:45am, after 1hr10min of A time, I put her down for her nap?  Should I just make A time super short for the next couple days and hope she takes long naps(we are battling 45mins naps too)?

My LO does not sleep in the stroller or car - instead she perks up and wants to see what's going on with the world.  Before BW, I used to bounce her to sleep but that no longer works.  So, I just have to hope she can self-sooth for naps and bedtime.

Thanks!

[* Paula *]

Sorry for not replying yesterday, I have had two sick kiddies this weekend 

I would be careful not to let her have too short an A time as you don't want her to start napping for 45 mins again, however, if she is showing tired signs, I would put her down and let her catch up on her sleep.  You may find that she ends up having 2 x cat naps before bed - this is fine, as you are watching her cues and putting her to sleep when she is ready.  Once the nights start going better, you will find that she is a lot more rested.

Hugs hun.

[judypdx]

Hi Paula - Thanks for the hugs!  I hope your kids are feeling better.

My LO started yawning/rubbing her eyes 20 mins after waking up at 7:40am.  I was at a crossroad - should i put her back down to sleep to have her stay up.  We ended up doing 50min low key activity and she was more than ready for naptime.  She closed her eyes on the way down and was asleep when her body hit the mattress.  It's hard finding that delicate A time to be just right.   

[sanaya]

i used to have that prob too, but my lo would never go back to sleep immediately. i think u did good.
sometimes my easy used to look llike this
AESSEAS (yes there is no Y in my easy. ha ha).
paula is right , dont let the A time be too little or she will be ut. its hard but u will just have to figure it out and see how its going. when increasing A time go easy with you lo. 5 min at a time.

good luck luv

[* Paula *]

How did the first nap go with the low key A time?

[judypdx]

I was almost at breaking point today when she took yet another infamous 45 min nap and almost skipped her CN. 


Yesterday
E 7:40
A (1hr30min)
S 9:10-10:40(1hr30min)

A
E 11:30
A (1hr50min)
S 12:30-2:20(2hr)

E 3:20
A (1hr50min)
S 4:15-5:00

E 6:10
A
S 6:30 early bedtime!

DF: 11 she woke up during the DF; it took her 30mins to settle back to sleep after DF

NW: 7:20pm,10pm, 3-4am

Today
E 7:30
A (1hr45min)
s 9:15-11:15(2hr - took 30mins to settle in between transition)


E 11:30
A (1hr45min)
S 1:15-2:00 (45min -LO tried very hard to self settle for 30mins )

A
E 3:20
S 5:10-5:40(30mins) (Placed her down at 3:40 as she was constantly yawning/rubbing eyes, but she laid in her crib for 1hr30min! A time is 3hr  )

A
E 6:40
S 7:20

Any help/suggestion is greatly appreciated!  I'm having a real hard time getting myself and my LO out of the OT rut. 

[sanaya]

hun, dont judge me please but on days when i've had it rough and i'm begining to lose my mind, i give my baby a mild sedative, that makes him rested, he at least gets one long stretch of sleep (so do i, haha, but at least i can have a better perspective on things)

but then thats me!
the fact that your lo is yawning and rubbing the eyes all day means she is very ot.
question : is she bottle or breast fed? and have you started solids? maybe shes also hungry?

[judypdx]

We had a really rough night!  After the dream feed, she woke up at 2-3am,3:30am-4,6am-7. No one slept. Please help! 

I know my LO is very OT(she has bags under her eyes at 4.5months!), trying my best to correct the problem.  The OT is probably from the accumulate 45 min naps since birth!

She is breastfed(5 feeds in 24hr) and her pediatrician asked us to wait until 6 mo. to start solid.

I also work full time at home in addition to caring for my LO by myself all day. I'm going to pass out soon.