LO thinks bedtime is 11 p.m...

[aimeeL]

So I still consider myself relatively new to BW, with my first LO being just 6 - almost 7 - wks old.. we started her at around 3-4 wks, and have been doing fairly well!  She's on a 2 1/2 - 3 hr EASY, and it's pretty predictable during the day.. E at about 7 a.m., 10, 1, 4 and then cluster feeding after that.. She's also sleeping decently long stretches at night.. will usually do 1 4-5 hr stretch, and then another 3-4 hr stretch.. so I'm pretty much only waking up once a night to nurse..

HOWEVER - my question/problem is.. we're not really making the 7:30 - 8 p.m. bedtime that I'd like... the dreamfeed at 10-11 p.m. ends up being just a normal awake feed - because she's usually not asleep before then... Often, she's fussy after the 8 p.m. feed and will fuss UNTIL the 10 p.m. feed... OR - like last night - she's not fussy at all, but just lays in her co-sleeper, wide awake, until she gets hungry right around the time of the dreamfeed...

I thought about it this morning... and yeah - it's as if her bedtime is actually around 10-11p.m. - the time of our dreamfeed, as opposed to 7-8 p.m.. AFTER the "dreamfeed", she goes down pretty easily and will sleep then until 2-3 a.m.. so THAT'S good... I just don't want to get her into the habit - if this IS a habit - of bedtime being 10-11 p.m.. what do you think?  Is it something I can/should fix?  Or should I just be happy that she's getting those two long stretches in?  Thanks!

[aimeeL]

Yup.. here it is..

7 a.m.   E
7:30 a.m.  A
8:15 a.m.  S

10:00 a.m.  (sometimes 9:30) E
10:30 a.m.  A
11:00 a.m.  S

1:00 p.m. E
1:30 p.m. A
2:15 p.m. S

4:00 p.m. E
4:30 p.m.  A
5:00 p.m. S

6:00 p.m   E
6:30 p.m.  A (bath)
7:30 p.m.  E
8:00 p.m.  S 

10 - 11 p.m.  Dream feed
2:30-3:30 a.m. Night feed

I've tried to get in the second cat nap that Tracy suggests in the 6 p.m. cycle, but we end up fighting her so much that I stopped trying... it was easier just to cluster feed her a little earlier - and she usually nods off then - sort of like a pre-dream feed, I guess...

She's going down really well during the day - with the easiest being the first nap; I can usually just put a paci in and walk away... it usually gets progressively harder, though.. with the 4 p.m. cycle nap taking about 20 min..  She also doesn't usually have a hard time going back to sleep after the middle of the night feed.. for instance, last night, she woke at 3:30 to eat.. and I was able to put her right back down.. she didn't sleep RIGHT away, but after maybe 10 minutes of babbling to herself, she fell back to sleep.

Let's see, what else... we don't have a long wind down routine.. As soon as I see her 3rd yawn, I usually try to swaddle her right away.. I've learned that by doing that - rather than pushing her for the 1 1/2 A time that's suggested - she goes to sleep much easier and is not OT... but yes, I swaddle, then hold her for a couple minutes while singing a song, then put her down in the co-sleeper or bassinet.  We do this for naps and bedtime..

Thanks for your help!!!

[jess, lukeys_mom]

aimee,
it sounds to me like you're doing really well. her naps look awesome.  a lot of newborns,particularly under 3 or 4 months, have very late bedtimes. that 7 - 7.30 bedtime comes later for many. in fact, at 7 weeks my ds was still going to bed around 11 for the night, because he was just not ready to do too many long strtches in a row - and it was certainly better to stretch those sleep times in the middle of the night as opposed to in the early evening hours. 
perhaps you can try making her evening times be super mellow, dim lights, long wind-down etc and see if you can get another nap in there before the dreamfeed. if not i wouldn't sweat it, you can be proud of having a baby who is following a routine so nicely!

[aimeeL]

Aw shucks - thanks so much for the encouragement!  SO heartening to hear that I'm on the right track....

So you don't think I should worry too much about the late bedtime then, eh?  You're right, though... I want to keep the night stretches at 5 hrs+, so staying up a little later is worth it...

How about A time at this point?  Like I said, I sometimes have to really work to get her to stay up even an hr... is that okay at almost-7 wks?  Should she really be up longer?  She's STARTING to sometimes do one cycle a day at about 1 1/2 hrs... which is why the evening long awake time is even odder... I mean, there are times still - mostly in the morning - that she hardly stays up for an hr... and then in the evening, she sometimes goes 3 hrs before that late night dreamfeed...

But I'm not complaining...=)  I just don't want to form any more bad habits!!  We spent the first three wks of her life - pre BW =P - walking and rocking to sleep and it was AWFUL...  =)

Thanks again!

[jess, lukeys_mom]

I really wouldn't worry about the late bedtime right now...you have time for that and it sounds like she is a happy little girl.
As for A times during the day, try to keep her up an hour if you can, if you can't don't worry unless it starts messing up her/your nights. For the evening A time it is certainly on the long side but unless she is struggling then I wouldn't worry about that either...every lo is different and A times are just averages after all.
It doesn't sound like you are forming bad habits - you three are doing a great job on bw! x

[aimeeL]

Okay - I'll stop worry about the late bedtime.. I just need to figure out something to do with our evenings..!  Because right now, I'm cluster feeding about every 1 1/2 hrs in the evening - and it's starting to wear on me..! =)  Last night was typical of our evenings so far - bfed at around 6 p.m., then had A time and bath and such...bfed again at 7:30 p.m. and nodded off around 8 p.m. in my arms... I also saw several yawns while eating.. so I swaddled her and put her in her co-sleeper, but she started fussing.. and fussing.. and fussing... So I gave up at around 9 p.m., bfed her again.. and then put her down at around 9:30, 9:45 p.m.. she was not fussy this time, but lay quietly in her bed with the pacifier until 10:30 p.m. - at which point she finally fell asleep...   So I'm just needing to figure out what to do between that 8-ish p.m. and 10-ish p.m. time slot.. too much activity, and she gets OT.. yet too little - and she falls asleep - but not happily enough to be put down...

Anyways - not a huge concern now that you've helped me feel that it's not all that bad for her to be going to sleep so late...  I'll figure it out.. =)  Thanks again!!

[jess, lukeys_mom]

just one thing i was wondering,do you think a nighttime bath might be a little stimulating for her?  just in the short term i mean, maybe that is a better daytime activity until her routine starts working itself out a little? B & SIL had an issue with this,they had to stop the evening baths as their lo was just getting too OT even though they were being really relaxed with the bath.

[aimeeL]

Hmmm... I might try that - switching the bath time slot to a.m....  Also - what do you think about this?  What if I just try to get her to do another cycle from 5:30/6-ish p.m. to 8:30/9-ish p.m.. and then put her down for the night THEN...?  Right now, I've been basically stopping the cycle then - and starting the whole cluster-feed-cat-nap thing... but what if I did one more...and just put her down later for the night.. This thinking comes from last night.. We cluster fed and had a bath by 7:30 p.m.. I nursed her again at 7:30 p.m. and she was very, very drowsy - pretty much asleep.. so I put her in bed - she was already swaddled - and her eyes popped open and she protested.  Loudly.  So after a few minutes, I picked her up and we resumed our evening... she lay on her mat, in the swing, etc.. until about 9:30 p.m. at which point I tried to put her down again (I fed her at 9 p.m. again) and she lay contentedly in bed until 10:30 p.m. at which pt she fell asleep.  But because she had eaten so early, with no later dream feed, she woke up at 1 a.m. and then again at 5 a.m.. which is about an hr or two earlier than normal.. usually, she wakes around 2-ish a.m. for her middle of the night feed... and then is up at 6-7 a.m., and we're up for the day... but because it was so early this morning, I nursed her and put her right back down.. and she slept soundly until 9:15 a.m.  Which she's never done before.  So really - she got almost a full 12 hrs last night... as opposed to the 8 we normally do - from 10 ish a.m. to 6 ish a.m..  and she was VERY happy this morning... wide awake after waking at 9:15 a.m., very alert and active for a full hr before I put her down again.. So I'm wondering if she's trying to tell me that SHE IS NOT READY FOR BED until 9:30/10-ish pm... and would like to wake later, too... is that possible??

I think I'm feeling frustrated over this whole thing and not ready to let it go yet =P because it has made my evenings difficult... our days are now very easy - her routine is fairly set and she's happy about it... but starting about 5-ish.. RIGHT when my DH gets home and I'm ready for adult interaction - is when this whole evening-twilight-zone begins and I don't know where to go or what to do with her!  Again, I'm not complaining because I know this pales in comparison to what a lot of other moms are going through... it's just frustrating to have her so predictable in the daytime and then not know what to do in the evening.. like I said earlier, I feel like I'm either constantly nursing or struggling to get her to bed from about 7:30 - 10:30 p.m.. and finally when she goes down at the later time, I can breathe a sigh of relief...

Sorry so long... thanks for the help!

[jess, lukeys_mom]

I think that sounds like a great plan. Actually I thought that you were trying to do another cycle in there and it wasn't working. But I would say if you are able to do that then that's the way to go. Baby sleep starts to regulate itself at 3-4 months, at which poin her sleep times will probably start extending themselves naturally. Bedtime later, etc. And you could then push bath to evening if you have moved it.
Just promise to keep us posted on how it goes for you!
xxx
PS. don't worry about how it compares to other peoples' experience because you are entitled to having an experience that works for you too!

[aimeeL]

Soooo... last night was better.  We did manage to do a short, 2 hr 6 p.m. cycle... E at 6 p.m., A at 6:30 - 7:15 and S from 7:15 to 8 (DH and I took her on a stroller walk.. which was nice - put her to sleep, and also gave us some time to chat...)  We came back, and she woke up - but I probably could've gotten her back down if I wanted... Instead, we did a bath.. and then around 8:30, I fed her again..  I put her down at 9 p.m. and by 9:15, she was out.. which is DEFINITELY an improvement.. I tried to do a dfeed at 10-ish, when she stirred... but she didn't wake, and I've learned with my LO that unless she's a tad bit awake, she won't eat... So - mistake #1.  I should've set my alarm or stayed up until 11 to get her to do the df, but I went to sleep... and she woke at 12 a.m. to eat.  Nursed her and went back to sleep... she woke at 5:30 a.m. to eat... nursed her and went back to sleep without reswaddling her.  Mistake #2.. =)  Her arms were out and she never sleeps well that way... so instead of sleeping until 8 or 9 like she did yesterday, she woke at 7:30 and our day started...

Unfortunately, tonight's going to be a bit off because we're going to my DH's Xmas concert (he's a hs music teacher)... but I'll keep experimenting over the wkend... I'm thinking if I feed her a little later - 9:30-ish, it'll be late enough where she won't need a df, but she'll still be able to go 5-6 hrs until the next feed... I think maybe 8:30 was too early last night for the last feed - which is why she woke at 12 a.m., wanting a df...?

Anyways - we'll keep trying... =)

[jess, lukeys_mom]

Hi aimee, that sounds really great! As for mistake #1...hindsight is always 20/20 and unfortunately at her age, what you 'should have done' is not always the same from night to night.

I used to find that for the df, my lo would have to be awake-ish to breast feed. however, i started doing the df with a bottle and then i could just rub his cheek a little bit and he could drink. i don't know if that would work for you, but what we did for a couple of months is i would express milk at about 9/9.30 and put in a bottle, then (try, at least) to go to bed so i could be well rested for night feed(s). then dh would do df and go to bed. it became dh's favorite time of the day

enjoy the christmas concert! and who knows, maybe it will put her to sleep
xxx

[aimeeL]

You were so right! - the xmas concert went FABULOUSLY - for DH AND LO.. =P  But first..

Hmmm.. that's not a bad idea with the df and bottle.. I'm not doing bottles at ALL at this point.. but maybe...especially when I go back to work part time come January.. I might really want that little break... I'll chew on that some more and keep you posted... thanks for the idea, though...

So the concert! - apparently, my little night owl likes all that activity and shuffling here and there... I bfed at 5 p.m., left at 6 p.m. and she slept the 1/2 hr drive there.. perfect little catnap... was awake - and QUIET!! - for the concert at 7 p.m., and then I bfed again at 7:30 p.m... she had another little catnap from about 8:30-9 p.m... did NOT sleep on the way home, which was kind of odd.. but then again - matches her "evening" personality of not needing much sleep... then bfed again at 10 p.m. after we'd been home for about 15-20 min... she slept soundly till 3:30 a.m..

So I'm going to see if I can imitate that schedule this evening, more or less, without - you know - having to get in a car and leave... =)  I was really worried about all the activity being to overstimulating and that I might have a hard time getting her to sleep... but it was actually one of our easier nights... after the 10 p.m. bf, she was out by 10:30...

One question - what would think about using a swing or something for the little catnaps in the evening?  I think that's what I found difficult about trying to get those catnaps in at home... doing the whole swaddling thing, winddown, and then putting her down in her bed... it was like by the time we did all that AND struggled to get her to sleep - the catnap "window" was over... it was much easier last night - and on other occasions - where she fell asleep "naturally" - in the car going somewhere, in the stroller on a walk, etc... So I'm wondering if I put her in the swing, if she might just fall asleep on her own for 30-45 min... what do you think?  Or do you avoid straying from The Routine =P as much as possible and only when necessary?  (Can you sense the paranoia of adopting bad habits? =P)

I think that's what I find so...overwhelming sometimes - exactly what you said about how things are NEVER the same... and even though hindsight 20/20 - it STILL might not work the next time you try it, because they're a week older..!  I also get anxious when I look at all the other threads and see all the other problems that might occur down the road!!!  Like it doesn't end here.. then there's the growth spurts and the teething and the sitting up and wanting to climb out of the crib, etc, etc... I guess that's parenthood for you, eh? =P 

Thanks again for all the encouragement and support!!  Do you know what your next LO is yet? - or maybe you don't want to find out??

[jess, lukeys_mom]

great about the concert! see she is taking after her daddy already, she must be a music lover

for that catnap...i was always advised on this site that the catnap is the "freebee" for the day, and just take it as you can.  so stroller, car, sing, whatever. the idea is just not to have it be that that's what she needs for every single sleeptime, know what i mean?

i totally understand the feeling of it being overwhelming and also looking at other threads.  on that same note though, here is one thing that made me feel so much better looking at other threads: check out all the entertainment sections of this thread, and notice how many moms of older babies hang out there. they have time to play games and talk about "so you think you can dance." it gave me some hope that i would have silly and fun stuff to look forward to again! (and i really do have time for games and tv now - despite luke being the world's worst sleeper in his first 6 months. it got so much better, the only reason i'm exhausted these days is due to pg, not to having a toddler)

thanks for asking about my pg. my next appt is thursday and yes, definitely want to find out! besides, i am hoping for a girl, otherwise dh is already ready to try for #3    i can totally see myself as the lady with 5 boys and a dh who wants to go for it again
xxx

[Mama2boys]

you are up way to late missy! you need tobe taking is easier than this

btw do let us know what you are having.

[jess, lukeys_mom]

mukta i had to keep aimee's lo company she's a night owl!!!