specifics on pat/shh

[marcomama]

Hi everyone-
I am trying to teach my ds to self-soothe (he has only been on a routine for a few days and I used to breastfeed him to sleep) and I could really use some clarification on pat/sh.  My ds is three months and three weeks.  I have not tried pu/pd because my understanding is that pat/sh is better for babies under 4 mos.  However, there are posts about pu/pd for babies that are three and half months old, so I am a little confused.  Is it ok to do pat/sh or should I be doing pu/pd? 

Pat/sh has worked well for me a few times, but most times its a struggle to put my ds down for naps (he goes down at night pretty well).  I have established the following wind down routine: Once I see some sleep cues, I go into his nursery and turn off the lights.  I turn on the white noise maker.  Then I swaddle him and we sit quietly on the chair.  After 1-2 minutes I stand up and go toward the crib while I sing him a lullabye.  After the lullabye, I put him in the crib.

The problems generally start when I lay him down in order to swaddle him.  He starts to fuss and cry.  Once he is swaddled I pick him back up and he is ok in my arms for about thirty seconds but then he starts to squrim and fuss.  He does what Tracy describes in the sleep interview, he burrows his head and then arches back.  At this point, I am trying to sit quietly with him (as described in the 4S wind down routine).  I read in the sleep interview that we don't want to "fight" with our babies when they squirm like that, so once he starts up I don't really know what to do.  I am not sure if I should continue to sit quietly with him or not.  What I generally do is stand up and talk to him in a soft, reassuring voice about sleeping as I make my way to the crib.  Sometimes he calms down enough for me to sing a lullabye, but he usually fusses and I end up putting him in the crib at which point he loses it and starts screaming and arching his back.  I generally roll him to the side and pat his back and make a loud "shhhh" noise past his ear.  Sometimes that works and he calms down, but more often than not its warfare.  If I pick him back up and try to soothe him on my shoulder, he starts burrowing his head and arching his back again which makes me think I should put him back in the crib.  But when I put him in the crib he cries harder, which makes me think I should pick him back up and soothe him on my shoulder.  And you see the vicious cycle.  I am confused and don't know where I should be doing the pat/sh.  Should I just leave him in the crib and pat/sh him through the screams?  Or should I calm him on my shoulder even though he is burrowing head and arching his back? 

This morning he was so upset in the crib that I lost stamina.  I was trying to pat/sh him while he screamed and writhed around and finally I couldn't take it anymore.  I took him out of the crib and we sat together on the seat, him in my lap, both of us crying.  Finally he calmed down a bit, which helped me to calm down.  I picked him up and put him on my shoulder and did sh/pat for about 5-6 minutes and he got very relaxed.  By the time I put him in his crib he was practically asleep.  I am sure he fell asleep because he was so exhausted from screaming his little head off.

I am worried that I am not teaching him how to properly self-soothe.  What should I do about the fact that he starts to fuss when I am swaddling him?  I am afraid that he is starting to learn the cues for sleep and they are making him uneasy right at the swaddling stage.  Should I keep my wind down routine as is or is there something else I should be doing?  Does the fact that he fusses at the swaddle mean I have waited too long and he is overtired?

At this point I have him on a 3 hour routine, but I am trying to make my way toward a four hour routine as he is almost four months.  He has anywhere from an hour to an hour and half of A time.  Typically its 15-20 min feed, about 45 minutes of actual play and then wind down which could last anywhere from 5 minutes (on a good day) to 20 minutes (or more on a bad day).  Am I waiting too long for the nap thus making him overtired? I am really trying to go by his cues, but it is difficult to know!!  Half the time I feel like I am trying to put him down for a nap and he is not even tired!

Please help with any advice you have.  I am frustrated, but really want to see this process through. 

marcomama

[lilac83]

Hi marcomama ~

First of all some Hugs. The beginning of sleep training can be very difficult and involve crying from both baby and mama. His A times look good for his age and if you're following his cues then that's perfect. How long does he nap for once he's finally asleep? Also, does he take a paci?

One thing you could try doing is keeping one hand free when you swaddle. That way he can find his fingers/thumb and self soothe that way. I would say to wait with PU/PD until he's a bit older. Generally sh/pat is the better way to go with the babies under 4 months. When I was sleep training my DD I would swaddle her, rock a bit and sing and then lay her down. She would cry, sometimes pretty hard, but I would leave her in her crib and continue to pat her and "sh" very loudly. I would suggest doing this for at least 20 minutes. If after that time he's still not sleeping, pick him up and calm him down for a bit and then try again. Be prepared, this is not a quick process. Somedays it did take an hour for me to get DD to sleep. However, it's so worth it. Now all I have to do is turn on her white noise, turn off her bedroom light, give her a kiss and lay her down. She falls asleep by herself in under 5 minutes. Keep the end in mind while you're going through that tunnel!

Here's a link too which you may find helpful:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=26672.0

Let me know how it goes! Good luck!

[marcomama]

lilac83-
thanks for the encouragement, I am really trying to keep the faith because my dh and I are looking forward to that end result.  When I swaddle my ds I do leave one arm out because he has definitely found his thumb.  I see him put his thumb in his mouth quite often now, which gives me hope that he is learning to use to it to soothe himself.  my ds has never taken a pacifier.  My dh and I have tried numerous times to give him one when he is fussing but he always spits it out.  I figure at this point I don't want to introduce one because I don't want to have to wean him later.  Do you agree?

I will from now on go ahead and pat/sh him while in the crib.  Its just hard because he starts fussing at the moment I start swaddling him.  Its like he knows that I am putting him to bed and he already starts to get upset.  Any ideas on why he would do that?  Is it because he is overtired?  I feel like I am giving him a bad association with bed/nap time.

Once he is asleep he tends to sleep from 30-45 minutes.  He will usually do one two hour nap.  I am thinking that he might do better on the 4 hour EASY given that his naps are short.  I read in the BW solves all your problems that short naps could be do to keeping a baby on the 3 hour schedule when they should be on the 4.  However, that means I would increase his activity time, but I already feel as though he is overtired whenever I put him down (I am assuming the fussing right when I swaddle is due to OT - but then again I could be totally wrong!  I just don't know  )

How long did you have to do sh/pat before your dd started going down without a fuss?  I have been at it for about five days and would like some perspective.  thanks so much.

[lilac83]

The fussing while being swaddle could come from being UT as well. That could be his way of saying "hold on, I'm not ready yet"! You could try increasing his A times slowly and see what happens. Start with just one A time and increase by about 15 minutes. Wait for about 3 days and then if you're getting good results try increasing another one. I wouldn't try to get him to take a paci anymore, especially if he's starting to show interest in his thumb. That will probably turn out to be how he soothes himself.

The sleep training lasted about 2 weeks with my DD. And even then she wasn't totally consistent until about 5.5 months old (I started the training when she was 3.5 months). However, on the days that she did need help, it wasn't anywhere near what it had been when I had first started. It took perhaps 15 minutes. So, if you start now with the consistency you should be seeing results in about a week.

[Jayjaymom]

hi Marcomom, I just wanted to let you me and my son went through the exact same thing!  After a few days I tried to analize what's happening and realized that my son LEARNED what's gonna happen after the windown.  So he was anticipating that momont during the whole windown, which only made him more upset and harder to caml down. so I decided to skip windown and it seemed to help. 

I have to run for a doctor appointment.  Here is what I responded in the 'all messed up' thread: I just wanted to let you know one thing I found out with S/P.  It seems after the first couple of times, my lo understood and expected that once we started all the wind down process, he wold be put down evetually.  So the windown got him waiting for that moment anxiously instead of helping him relax.  So I skipped the windown.  I just played withihim (low key) or walk around close to the crib.  Once he started to yawn, I tried to put him down as quick and gently as possible, and started patting  right away.  It seemd to work since he didn't have time to get nervous and and start the fight.  He would be able to stay relaxed and go to sleep in 5 minutes.  After several successes, he was less uptight with his nap/sleep, I then started to use the 3S (he wasn't swaddled after a month after birth.  He started to play with his hands and fingers very young).  I would sit with him for a few minutes before nap.  To us the key is to act ASAP once he yawns or rubs his eyes.  And another key was to find a way to put him down that he could remain relaxed, or, with no time to start the resistent : )

Good luck!

[marcomama]

Jayjaymom-
thank you for responding.  this morning i was thinking the exact same thing.  as i started to swaddle marco (and he started to fuss) i thought to myself - what if i try just skipping the wind down routine (or at least making it much more simple)?  interestingly, before i learned about the 4s wind down, i had tried a couple of times to put him down immediately when i saw the cues (without a wind down routine) and he was able to play/babble in his bed and then get himself to sleep.  so i am thinking the wind down may actually be winding him up!  i am going to follow your advice and cut down my wind down routine and see if that helps.  i appreciate your input - makes me feel like my hunch was right!

thanks 

[marcomama]

lilac83-
yes, i think you are right.  i will try to increase the A time in 15 minute increments and see how that works.  i am also going to simplify/shorten the wind down routine just to see if the situation improves.  i guess its all about trial and error!

thanks so much!

[Jayjaymom]

Glad to hear that, Marcomom.  Yes, I think the key is not to have a pattern they can recognize that will make them nervous.  It worked for us, at least more than half of the times : )
 Now my son seems to be able to relax more even if I sing the old wind down songs.  I guess now he learned it's not so bad to go to sleep after all, and he doens't need to be so afraid of mom's songs : )