13 month old still has me baffled.

[sherry lynn]

I don't have too long to type this because Lyle is down for a 20 min nap, but I'll try to get as much info out as I can.

We've had many many ups and downs since we started BW a year ago. Lyle started the 2-1 transition at 9.5 months. By 11 months we were having a few 1 nap days here and there. His A times went to about 4 hours. But lately we seem to be having a huge regression. He is down to about 3h20m in the AM and the last few times that I have put him down after 4 hours A time in the evening he seems to be OT.

We might also be having a little bit of SA and the area above his canines is really white (like his front teeth were before they came in) so I guess maybe some teething too....

We were on this for a while.
4 hours A time
45min nap
3h10m A time
1.5hour nap, often even a little more
4 hours A time
This was the best routine we ever had. It's the only one that lasted more than 3 days.
Then we started to get the PM nap refusal.

I tried the 30 min nap - but I couldn't seem to get the A times right. So I'd only get about 1h10min nap in the afternoon, then I had an OT bub on my hands, and we'd get an EW the next day. Lyle rarely makes up daytime sleep at night. Our best nights are 11-11.5 hours, but these seem very few and far between.

So on and off we've been doing this - with some days of a long AM nap (try for catnap, sometimes get one, sometimes we don't) and then sometimes I've thrown in the 45 min nap with success lately also. But I only dare do 2 days of this, because it seems that on the third day he will reject the PM nap. If he gets into a real OT cycle I can even do a 1h15m am nap and then a 1h10mish PM nap. But it's been a little while before I've dared that.

3h20m A time
25min nap
somewhere between 2h and 2h30min A time
Then this nap length varies a lot also.
I get between 1h10m - 2h20min.
Now I'm really struggling with both the second and last A time.

I've had the best naps with 2.5 hour A time, but the last two days he is really really cranky after the 25 min nap and hasn't seemed able to do even 2 hours A time afterwards.
So yesterday he did 1h55m before in bed. He seemed happy to be in bed. He did not fuss or anything..... but then it took him 25 min to go to sleep.
I did 4 hours A time after his nap (he ended up doing really well and napped for 1h45m that ended at 3:15.

I ended up with a LO who was in a meltdown at bedtime.

So here's a few questions I have
When they are transitioning does it take a while for them to go to sleep no matter the A time? This seems to be more and more of an issue for us.
Should I go back to trying 3.5 hours A time when he wake from his PM nap. This used to not work at all.... but maybe with the short first nap he needs this.
Should I cut the second nap to 1.5 hours (or maybe 1h45m)? The days that he slept 2h20m (ending at 3:20) he seemed tired enough at bedtime (even with short A times, like 3.5-4 hours) he was asleep about 7:30ish, but both times I had him take GREAT naps he was up at 5 or so the next morning.

Sorry this is so long.

Ang - you asked me what I times I was doing on the last thread that you had started and I wasn't able to answer you before the thread was locked.

[charmie]

Hey Sherry, dropping some hugs.  Will be back later to read more.


xxx
charm

[{{{Angela}}}]

*hugs* Sherry.  Our schedule is all over the place too.  I've never cut the first nap shorter than 35 minutes.  20 minutes just seems so little to me.    It's hard to know what to do when there doesn't seem to be a pattern...and those canines coming out are probably wearing him down too.

What I noticed with Z is that her first 3 days of one nap, she did really well.  But then the OT built up and she had NWs the 4th early morning and an EW on the 5th morning.  So she had to rejuvenate on the 5th day with two naps.  Maybe Lyle needs to switch back and forth more often like the PP said?  I know he's spirited and Z is pretty textbook..   Argh!  It's hard.  More *hugs*

[sherry lynn]

Thanks so much for the input guys.

I think for now we are back to two naps, and that is totally fine with me. I don't really mind either way.

Stacy, the only probably with not trying to have at least a goal amount of A time is that it seems that he gets OT in the blink of an eye. For example, last night I had figured 4 hours. He was fairly cranky while we  were out, but I knew he would get a second wind when we got home, and he did. Then right around 7 (3h45m) he seemed to be getting tired again (walking seemed a little crooked and what not) so I took him off to bed. Before his head even hit the mattress he was freaking out....   Took a little more than 30 min to get him down and more AP than I care to provide. But he was freaking every
time I left.

Do you think I should cut the second nap to some sort of length? Or a certain time? Like maybe 3:30?

[sherry lynn]

I also think that if Lyle isn't up by 7, hahaha, I will start waking him again at 7 and see how it goes. Usually he gets cranky if I do. It seems that if he sleeps past 7 he needs the sleep. But I really really am starting to be a firm believer that if he sleeps past 3:30 that it cuts into his nighttime sleep. At first when we cut the first nap he seemed to be ok with it, and he was even sleeping in in the morning for a little while. But those days seem long gone.

Here's today so far
Wake up 6:55
In bed for nap #1 10:15   (3h20m of A time)
Nap #1 10:30-10:57 I woke him
I took him outside during A time and gave him a bath to see if he would act less tired this A time
He seemed to do pretty well. We'll see how the nap goes.

In bed for nap#2 at 1:27 (2.5 hours A time)
Asleep 1:44

[sherry lynn]

Stacy, when you were helping me before the 4 hours before bed worked really well. But that was with a 45 min first nap. Since then it doesn't seem to be working. Also if Lyle sleeps til say 4, he still seems really ready for bed at 7:30 so I put him down, and that hasn't been going well. Not much seems to be going well huh  

But, now that I think about it it might be because he got over 2.5 hours daytime sleep. He would have had 2h40m  20 in the AM 2h20 in the PM, I thought it would work out OK both those days because the naps ended at 3:20? Guess I was wrong. But Like I said he was ready for bed by 7:30, so I also thought it ended up OK.

OH, but also the other day he had something like 45 min in the am, then it took him FOREVER to go down for the second nap so he napped 2:45-4:15. I woke him at 4:15. He was cranky and what-not, wanting to go to bed before 7:30 so in bed 7:22 and it took him 50 minutes to go to sleep. He wasn't crying or anything. Just rolling around.
Started fussing at 4:45 AM  (very brief wake up)
went back to sleep
Brief wake up again 5:00.
Up for the day at 5:15.

So that day didn't have too much daytime sleep. So I'm guessing I let him sleep to late in the day?  Since he wanted to go to bed by 7:30. And the A time wasn't long enough....
Or.... I'm just thinking about it to much and it is what it is 

[~Karen~]

Hugs Sherry.  Can't offer much advice though as I'm just going with the flow still on one/two nap days.  I'm also rubbish at waking him (as in I just won't do it!) so today we had a 1hour 20 min morning nap and a 40 min afternoon nap. 

This can be the new thread for moaning about them!!

[charmie]

Sherry I have read but don't really have advice to offer.  Your 13 month old is not the only one though.  As you know K is quite confusing right now too 


xxx
charm 

[sherry lynn]

Karen - sounds good Glad you were able to sneak in two naps today. How are the EW going? I would be much more inclined to do the longer AM nap if it didn't seem to cause so many stinky EW. The weird thing is it doesn't ALWAYS cause them. This kid is not consistent about anything. He throws in just enough good stuff for me to want to keep doing things like giving him a long AM nap. I feel like doing it tomorrow

This is my moan for today....

PM nap was 1h20 min, ending at 3:09. He tried to go back so sleep so badly. My heart was breaking for him. He just couldn't do it. The afternoon went fine. No major issues, although he was tired. But we went to the library and that kept him busy. So I decided to go ahead and try for 3h30 min A time. Since after a 1h45m nap yesterday 4 hours was too much......... and bedtime still stunk!!!!!! It was horrible. Screamed every time I tried to leave. Was putting my hand on him, then decided to just shhhh, because I was getting tired of standing. Eventually I was able to leave. After a long time.
It took 50 min AGAIN for him to go to bed. Angela, I am feeling your pain.
So finally asleep at 7:22.

[~Karen~]

Sherry - Hugs to your horrible bedtime.  It seems to make no difference here either with regards to the long am nap and ew so that's why I don't wake him up now if we haven't got anything on.  How was your night?

Ethan went down after about 3h20mins awake time and stirred a bit but went to sleep quite quickly.  Woke up at 520am so had a 10 hour night.  Didn't get him up till just after 7am and he cried/chatted on and off until then but didn't go back to sleep.  I'm hoping that once he gets the hint again that he's not getting up he might start sleeping longer again!  We're out this morning so I'll aim to leave at 930am as we have a bit of a drive and then he can just have nap in car.

[* Paula *]

Hugs Sherry,

Reading your thread and the replies that you have received from Stacy makes me realise that we let Abi sleep too long yesterday.

We had a a good wake up yesterday, and she was down for her nap by 12:30.  She woke at the hour mark and was crying, I resettled, she woke at the 2 hour mark, I resettled, and she woke mantra crying at the 3 hour mark, but I got her up at it was 3:30.  She seemed fine after I got her out of bed.

She obviously had way too much sleep yesterday as I put her to bed at 7:45, was asleep within a few mins, but was awake by 6:00

She has been poorly as you know, so thought I would let her sleep as long as she wanted, but it backfired on me.

Most days she only naps between 1.5 - 2 hours at nursery, so guess I should not let her go longer than 2.5 hour.

[charmie]

Dreadful night and EW here too.  And she had a total of 2hr naps yesterday, so not bad.   

I am now waiting for the big yawn.  It seems like that's all I do these days.  I was thinking about going about my normal business and stay in for a couple of days everytime we get the OT naps.  Would that be too cruel?

xxx
charm

[* Paula *]

Hugs Charm,

We try to do that if we have bad naps and OT.  Definitely think it is a good idea if you are ok with it.

Could K be teething and that is why you had NW and an EW?

Abi had a great night last night, just woke really early

[sherry lynn]

Charm - sounds good. K is used to a little more than 2 hours though... so I think it will just take her a little while to get used to it.

Paula - I was hoping that Abi was better. Sorry to hear that she is still poorly. When they are sick it seems to go either way, we never know which, right   Sometimes they seem to need to sleep a ton, and then other times it bits us in the rear. Some little ones do ok with 3 hours A time, but I guess you would expect less night sleep with Abi. I know that would be the case with Lyle.

We had a blue murder scream at 4:00, got him resettled, finally asleep about 4:30 but then he slept until 6:45, so not too bad at all.

Ok..... so you know I said confidently I think we are on two naps for awhile...... so then I got the AM nap refusal this morning. Errrr..... the problem is is that he seemed tired, even tired enough to take a short AM Nap, but I guess not...... errr..... guess I'll do 4 hours A time.

[~Karen~]

Sherry - Typical!  We'll never be able to read this lo's!  Are you doing a one nap day today then?

Paula - Sorry about the ew but glad she had a good nap/sleep anyway.  I hate waking Ethan up and only do it if I really need to!

Charm - Hugs.  I find it hard to stay in these days with Amy having things on most mornings but I do try and get him to have good naps on the days we are in.

Both naps in car today.  First about 45 mins and the second about an hour so not too bad.  Awake at 335pm so will be a 7pm bedtime