Extending naps

[SleeplessInToronto]

I'm having a ton of trouble with my four month old and extending naps. Just before he was three months old, I noticed that all of his naps were 45 minutes or less and he was super OT in the evenings (screaming inconsolably). At first I thought he was sick or teething, but soon realised he wasn't getting enough naps. So I made it my mission to try to get him longer naps. Since then, I've been lying down next to him in my bed for naps so that I can pat shh as soon as he stirs. Most days I only manage to extend one nap to 90 minutes and the rest remain at 45. As a result he's usually still OT, but less so. Sometimes I can get one nap to go to 2+ hours and then he's a much happier guy.

I'm really trying to get him on EASY, because he was a snacker, but it's so hard with these naps of varying lengths. I'm also confused with all of the advice I've been getting.

When he wakes up early from a nap and still seems tired (crying and yawning), should I:
a) Try to put him back to sleep by any means necessary to avoid OT state
b) Try to put him back to sleep using only Shh Pat
c) Let him be awake for a very short time (30 minutes) and try to put back down
d) Let him be awake for his normal A time (1.5 hours) and then try to put back down

Right now, I pop a paci in and shh pat. I could use AP (picking him up and walking with him), but I've tried to avoid that. I usually only try the sh pat for a few minutes at which point he is really freaking out so I pick him up and we do a normal A time.

Unfortunately he doesn't seem to have sleepy cues before he gets OT. He goes straight from playing normally to fussing and rubbing his eyes.

Thanks

[spanna]

Hi Sleepless!

I have trouble with this one too.........

I haven't really had much success to be honest, but have tried sh-pat in the past with ltd success......  a couple of times lately I have taken her back to bed after only ten mins, when all I have done is change her nappy , get her dressed, and take her to the lounge room. and as soon as she gets to the mat to play, she rubs eyes or yawns and so I took my chance...seemed to work as she knows the WD routine well and took my lead.....

Frustrating as hell isn't it! I gave up on trying to extend the naps to sleeps! and now if she does a long sleep I'm just lucky, but if she does multiple short sleeps I just wear it and let her go back down when she shows she's tired, (bit tough though if you are having a hard time picking up on those ques!)

I end up having a strange EASY but I have accepted that for the mo........but hey I might learn something here, so i'll pop in and out to see if you get any good advice,
good luck!

[marensmama]

Hi sleepless. Can you post your routine?  It sounds like maybe he's ready to go to a 4 hour EASY but you need to get rid of the OT and AP bit first.  I think you laying next to him for naps will cause trouble in the long run.  Tracy always said start as you mean to go on, and I don't think you'll want to be co-napping for the next two years plus!   

Hopefully if we can tweak your routine he can nap longer and more independently. 

[DebMcGee]

At the start, I used to have to sush pat for about 30mins which is normal to start with and would always eventually get her to sleep. If she was really bad, i'd picker up and sush pat her with her head over my shoulder, then once calm, move her to craddling as if I was about to give her a bottle and use a dummy held with my thumb and using my middle fingers to pat her gently whilst sushing. It always worked within about 10mins and she'd be asleep in her cot. Give that a go and see what happens but you need to stick with it for at least a week. Eventually she'll get used to it and you can sush from behind the door without her even seeing you or better still, do it trhoguh the baby monitor so you can carry on with whatever you're doing.

Good luck!
Dx

[SleeplessInToronto]

Thanks for the tips. I started doing the cosleeping for naps because I'm too tired to stand by the crib and pat for 30 minutes. Especially with the shushing - the constant exhaling was making me dizzy. It was also the only way that I get to lie down during the day, because if I leave him in the crib and lie down in another room, by the time I hear him he's too wide awake to get back to sleep.

DebMcGee - my putting to sleep routine is very close to what you are describing. I go into a dark room, sing a little, swaddle (at which point he realises what I'm up to and starts to fuss) put a paci in and sing while rubbing his belly. Then hold him vertical and start sh pat (this sometimes causes him to scream if he doesn't want to sleep). When calm, I switch him to horizontal (which often causes him to scream, so I go back to vertical for a bit). Then when his eyes are starting to close, I put him down and continue to sh pat. I've been trying to lay him down even sooner before his eyes close and have had some success with that. I'm usually holding him no more than 10 minutes and then patting while he's lying down anywhere from 5 - 20 minutes.

Are you suggesting that I use the same process to extend the nap? I was avoiding picking him up because I thought that would set up a bad habit, so I was sh patting while he was still lying down. While I'm doing it he gets more and more agitated. After about 5 minutes of this he would be so frantic that I'd give up. When I do manage to extend, I don't do anything different he just doesn't get agitated and falls asleep instead.

[SleeplessInToronto]

I will post my routine from yesterday here if I get a chance later, but it changes everyday. I just managed to get him eating every 3 hours and that was hard, but I'll try to start extending feeds

I should note that we just got back from a 10 day vacation where it was impossible to keep his routine, so he's very OT. Should I get rid of the OT by any means necessary first and then start heavy sleep training and switch to 4 hour Easy? Or just go right into the training? I also want to wean from paci because I think there's a dependence. Is that too much at once?

[DebMcGee]

The vacation would have definitely affected him but you need to get back to your routine asap. I think for a week, I would stick to 3 hour routine and then try to move on to a 4 hour routine from next week by extending teh time between feeds by 10/15mins a day by distracting him. I did this with mine and she took to it well and it also helped with napping.

Regarding the Dummy - I think you should wait for now and let him have it. He's still a wee bit too young to put it in himself, although he is at an age where he can suck his fingers to self soothe which i decided to let mine do (although I really hate thumb sucking, I decided it was better for her if she could self-soothe. it's not become a problem yet and she only does it in the evenings when shes ready for bed and hungry).

Everythign at once is too much so go back to old routine, get her on 4 hour routine a bit later, then decide what you do about the dummy. I think the priority is to sort out the daytime napping within the old routine if that makes sense.

But at the end of the day, you know your baby so watch him and see what he's telling you. If he needs your help, give it to him.

I think you do need to sush pat to extend naps but think you're right to leave him in his cot unless he's really upset. Could you record yourself sushing and play it back to him when you need to? It sends me to sleep too but that could be a way to get him back to sleep without too much distractoin from you being in the room with him. I have a monitor that you can record on to and play via remote control so it works with that and is a godsend.

Good luck!
Dx

[darbar]

I have the exact same problem as you with the exception of one big difference...my baby wakes up happy and cooing after 30-45minutes. She seems well rested, but then later in the day she is an absolute monster. So I have made it a goal to try and extend her naps. I am not having much luck! When I try to go in and sush-pat her she will look up at me and smile and on occasion she will start to giggle at the sight of me. I have no idea what to do?? I try re-swaddling her, putting her pacifier back in her mouth and sometimes I put her music back on because I feel that by staying in the room I am making it worse. She will go back to sleep for me on very rare occasions, but not usually. She will just continue to coo and babble at herself in the crib until I finally give in. Does anyone have any thoughts or advice?? I have her on a 4-hour routine, but because of her short naps she ends up having activity time after each sleep before the next feed.

[llnewton]

Hi Darbar and everyone else

I am having a problem with short naps. Am on 3 hrly routine with my 9.5 week lo (5 weeks preemie) and he used to nap 1.5- 2 hrs every naptime right up to the next feed. This all changed after a visit to the inlaws over Xmas and I now have the 45 minute nap monster to contend with. Every nap, he wakes up in 45 mins to the dot. Unlike you Darbar, he's not all that happy and gets progressively grouchier as the day goes on.

Today I tried something that may not be seen as being an ok thing to do in the long term but it worked today so I'm going to try it again. Because my LO sleeps well with any movement, today I started moving the pram I put him into sleep at around 40mins into his nap. He opened his eyes briefly at 45 mins and made a few movements and phantom cries in the following 20mins and then I stopped. I carried on for 20mins as I recall Tracy saying that you need to devote 20 mins to pat and shh to get them through the next sleep cycle. It worked today and I got 1.5 - 2hr sleep again.

Problems with this could of course be - this is a prop (though I'm not sure why it would be any more of a prop than shh/pat) and that this won't work in the long run in order to cause transition between sleep cycles.

I spoke to a friend who had the same problem. She used to pick up her moses basket by the handles and swing it gently at the first sign of the 45 min monster.

Not sure if this is acceptable to you guys. Have you tried wake 2 sleep? Not sure if it would work if her early wake time is not constant.

Good luck. I've only had 1 day of this and have no idea how long to try it for. I'm so scared it's not going to work and I'll have a chronic short napper on my hands.

Lara

[spanna]

Hi Darbar,
You mentioned putting the music back on...... After how long does this go off?? Anything that is there when they go to sleep needs to be there when they stir, so that thay are familiar/secure with what is going on........
Just a thought. I don't have much luck with extending either, but that just jumped out at me... we used to use a sleep sheep that used to switch off at 45 mins.......I only use it at really tough times but turn if off before she goes right off!
sorry feed due gotta fly           

[DebMcGee]

Hi Dar
The last few days my DD has woken happy and giggly and the more i stay in the room, the more playful she gets. Tried getting her to go back to sleep and it just doesn't work so now I will leave her in her cot to amuse herself and only go in if she cries (which is hardly ever at this point - it's later on when she's OT) until the end of the nap period so she at least knows that this is quiet time. At the end of the day she's not a robot and won't always conform. I've thought about letting her get more tired in the morning but I think it's cruel if she's already showing signs of being tired and ready to sleep. It may just be a phase but I am trying to stick as closely to EASY as possible and making sure the feed times NEVER change.

My friend think she's hungry and that her teeth are bothering her enough to interfere so I gave her more food and some infant paracetamol which did the trick and she managed to sleep for 2 hours - and so did I for 20 mins! She's having her morning nap as I type and approaching the end of cycle one so it will be interesting to see what happens....

It is starting to disrupt the night sleeps now which is what I was most concerned with - for her and me as I am so so tired at the moment and could kill for 7 hrs! It's a good job I don't have to go to work right now. I'd be useless!

I sometimes wonder if it all really matters. I mean, I have lots of friends who have no idea what they are doing and raise free range babies. They seem to be doing ok and because they don't worry about a routine they seem less stressed. I do love EASY and it's given me more time to myself which is brilliant but I do sometimes sit and worry about the napping so much so that it can make my stomach feel tight which is not good. Structure is always good but it has to work for mums too.

Anyway this site is great as we all cheer one another on when the going gets tough. keep at it!

Dx

[darbar]

Thank you so much for all of your thoughts and advice. This website is new to me. I really appreciate the support. I will give a few of your suggestions a try and keep you posted. It is nice to know that we are all facing the same struggles! Interesting what you mentioned Deb about quiet time. Yesterday I decided to do just that (for the first time). I let her coo and play in her crib when she woke up and she did eventually fall back asleep on her own, which was shocking (after 25 minutes!). Then we had a great night because she ended up having an hour nap after she fell asleep that second time and she was well rested until bed time. Maybe that is the answer for us.
Thanks again!

[DebMcGee]

Glad she put herself back to sleep - mine hasn't so far!! I've promised myself today that I will no longer stress over the length of sleep at each nap - I'm going to look at the total - so if she sleeps for about 11 hours at night, if she gets 3 x 45mins, that's still pretty much enough sleep for her age, although not ideal. I'll read her and if she wants to go to sleep I will put her to bed. I'm also going to get out and about more so she gets fresh air (it's been freezing and she stayed home for nearly a week until I dragged her out yesterday).

A routine needs to flexible and so do we...or else we'll have babies that have no idea how to adapt to situations. I want to enjoy this time instead of worrying about 'what ifs'. It's not worth it!

[spanna]

Hi Deb I totally agree with your approach! I no longer stress about the length of the sleepa dn look at the total for the day, if I get to the end onthe day and she has missed out somewhere ai revise bed time! like you say otherwise we'll have inflexible bubs -  and grumpy mums .......

[DebMcGee]

Yesterday was much better because I changed my attitude and didn't get stressed when she didn't conform. She had catnap in morning, 90mins at lunch, some food then back to sleep for 30mins and had an hour nap in the late pm. Bed at 6.45 and she slept pretty much through til 7 this morning apart from talking in her sleep that woke me up at 3 and I couldn't settle back!!

I've changed her feeding routine a little now so that i don't give her food and milk at the same time as she's adapted to first tastes so there's no need to wait til she's starving so I'm now doing milk first then food, 40mins after. So far so good but it's only been breakfast!! She's now asleep and I'm wondering if delaying the food feed will mean she's sleeps longer....it's been 15mins so far and I'm counting but only for fun!

I much prefer being relaxed. As long as food and wake up times are the same everything will be ok.