Author Topic: Desperate for sleep:1yr old, need bw coaching..PLEASE  (Read 1953 times)

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Offline jltay

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Desperate for sleep:1yr old, need bw coaching..PLEASE
« on: January 03, 2009, 18:37:33 pm »
Dear bw mommies,
 I need coaching and I'm begging for all your help.  I successfully BW'd my first baby who is a healthy 4 year old sleeper.  However, my sweet baby boy #2, I've screwed it up.  First of all, I'm the only one who has ever put him to sleep for naps and bedtime his entire first year.  I'm a devoted breastfeeding mommy also.  But I and my family desperately need sleep.
I don't know where to start so forgive me if I'm all over the place.  He is about the turn 1 year old next week.  Since he was born, I've been BW minded but with caring for my 4 year old also, I couldn't devote as much time to the new baby and accidentally parented ALOT!  He has a few times gone to sleep on his own in his crib for either nap or night time sleep, and he has early on slept for 5 or 6 hours during the night, but probably when he was 5 or 6 months old.  Since then however, he wakes many times per night.  Currently, he wakes in the evenings as well.  So it feels like every hour and a half or so starting from when we put him to bed, I'm in with him doing whatever I can to get him back to sleep....I know, I know, bad mommy.  In the few times  my husband goes in to try to settle him, he either protests hysterically, pushing him away and screaming or he wakes up and starts laughing and talking.  When he was 4 months old, we got word that we would be moving to a new state.  At that time we prepared and put our house up for sale and lived during a two month time with people coming in and out frequently to see the house which meant I would have to "stage" the house perfectly and vacate both children for people to come see it.  Then we packed our clothes and toys and moved to a rental house in a new state while trying to sell our house almost 4 months ago.  That entailed, driving for 2 days pulling a trailer, staying in hotels for a few nights then moving into the rental where nothing is ours but our clothes and the baby's crib.  It's been stressful, money is running out and we are exhausted.  We try every day to acclimate so we are distracted by our own worries and our dedication to settling our children into some routine.  My 4 yr old is doing well although some nights he still wakes us wanting to sleep with us (only since the move).  The rental house has their bedrooms upstairs and our downstairs and the stairs are steep and there are 20+ stairs.  After a couple of months or trekking up those stairs several times per night, I have given up and bring the baby to bed with us and nurse him to sleep.  Sometimes he goes right to sleep, other times he is awake for 3 hours bouncing between my husband and me practicing his standing up and falling, which he loves to do.  In the last 4 months since we moved, he has cut 3 teeth, 2 more are trying to pop through, he has learned to crawl and pull up to standing and now cruises pretty efficiently and eats solid food like a grown man.  He usually wakes at 7 on the dot, is back down by 9:30 or 10 (for 1.5 -2.5 hours) unless we have to be out of the house during which time he doesn't fall asleep in the car or stroller. Then lunch around noon, then wants to go back to sleep around 2:30 or 3.  During this time, I either go up and nurse him until he is drunk and sleepy and either put him in his crib for 45 mintues or so or if it's after 3, I'll hold him sleeping for about a half hour.  I know, I know, bad.  Then by 6:30 he's asleep after his bedtime routine which is a bath or washing up in the sink, dressing, breastfeed, a little rocking, then bed.  I've been giving him Tylenol during the teething as well as Belladonna, and Teething homeopathics.  We use a sound machine and a humidifier, he is dressed in a onesie and sleeper but refuses a blanket, he gets tangled.  On a good day, he naps from 9:30 -11, eats and goes back down around 2 for another hour and a half.  Those seem to be the easiest days but we can't do it everyday, I have to take my oldest son places and he needs to get out of the house.  We only moved here recently so no family or close friends to help.  We did find a great babysitter who is willing to help however we need her but when she comes (once a week), I want her for my oldest son so he gets some one on one time to play and not have to alter his life for the baby.  She does stay for the evening so I can go out with my husband or alone but the baby always wakes up and she has to try to get him back to sleep or he wakes as soon as I get home and I'm in with him for at least an hour.
I've tried wake to sleep method, PU/PD (for as much as 3 hours), Pat/SHH, Walk in/out, Elizabeth Pantley gentle removal method with the nursing and holding.  He's 20 lbs, so my back is always hurting, sometimes spasms.  As soon as he hits the mattress, he wakes up. I"m sure I'm doing all of these wrong in some way because it all worked with my oldest son.  But at some point, I give in out of pure exhaustion or my oldest son has been left alone too long or needs something.
I'm exhausted and begging for your help.  I will donate to the site since it has been so kind to me.
Calling all bw mommies,
Jennifer       
Mommy to Braxton & Parker

Offline speechie

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Re: Desperate for sleep:1yr old, need bw coaching..PLEASE
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2009, 03:26:35 am »
Hi Jennifer-
Welcome to the BW boards and HUGE HUGS to you! Wow, you seem like you're going through a lot of changes and really maintaining a nice level of normalcy for your LOs. I'm pretty impressed that you're doing as well as you are.
Okay, so let me clarify what I read are the problems and you tell me if I have it right:
1. difficulty getting your baby to sleep- especially anyone other than you.
2. baby has been taken into your bed to fall asleep
3. teething pain/motor milestones also impacting sleep
4. tried many different methods/possibly confusing to LO?
5. major change in environments- new stimulating places to LO, new house/room, etc...
6. NWs everynight...
Did I understand you correctly? Tell me, what do you do for NWs (nurse to sleep? take into your bed? pain meds?etc..?). What do you do everytime?
Does your LO have a lovie?
You are doing a great job, through a lot of transitions!
hope we can help you sort it out!
Cathie
                Nick spirited angel, born August 2, 2007

Offline jltay

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Re: Desperate for sleep:1yr old, need bw coaching..PLEASE
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2009, 18:07:02 pm »
Yes to #1,2,3, tried pu/pd, pat/sh mainly, yes to #5, 6, lately if it's been 3 hours since last wake, I'll breastfeed him and then try to pat his back to sleep but he'll keep sitting up, or standing up, not always crying, he starts crying if I do pu/pd and usually cries hysterically if I try to touch him.  He'll even throw himself around and bang his head on the crib if he's standing and I go to pu. It took me 3 hours two nights ago, 3.5 hours last night and we're on hour #3 now with morning nap.  This morning after dropping my oldest at school.  I brought the baby home let him crawl around a bit, then started wind down, with verbal sleep cues, teething meds, breastfeed, in crib, when he started standing up, as I lay him down, he would start laughing, and crawling around his crib like a chase me game.  So I left, when he started crying, went back in and did PU/PD which is when the hysterical crying started.  After screaming for an hour with me say his sleep cue phrase and putting a hand on him, he sat up and started babbling.  I laid him down, said the phrase and he started playing again.  So I left again, and he cried a few minutes, got quiet, cried a little, got quiet, now he's screaming.  Gotta go back.
I've been holding a lovie with us for the last two days while breastfeeding and putting in crib with him.  When he notices it, he throws it out or around crib.  The last 2 nights, once he's gone to sleep finally, he has slep 3.5-4 hours and when he wakes it's something like 5 o 6 am and I bring him to bed and nurse him to sleep.  I' afraid if I don't feed him, he won't go back to sleep.  Also afraid that if I try to put him back in his crib, I'll be up another 3 hours trying to get him back to sleep...which means, awake for the day at five after virtually no sleep.  And my 4 year old gets the end of the stick. THANK YOU so, so much for responding, I was losing hope.  I'm comitted, really, just want to make sure I'm doing it right.
Mommy to Braxton & Parker

Offline jltay

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Re: Desperate for sleep:1yr old, need bw coaching..PLEASE
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2009, 20:18:52 pm »
An update...I tried for 3 hours for this morning's nap and he never did fall asleep.  I got him up and fed him lunch and took him to go pick up his brother at school.  When we got home, I let him play for about 15 minutes then took him up, wound him down and put him in his crib.  He started to play so I left.  He's now either quiet and playing around in there or crying/whining.  I'm wondering when to go back in, what exactly is a mantra cry, and what to do if he starts playing again...ie, standing up after I put him down laughing, or throwing things out of his crib, or grabbing at me and laughing.  I'm not sure where to go, I can't see doing this for 2 weeks.  I'm neglecting my 4 year old, myself, my husband, my home to do this.  Please keep coaching me, I can't tell you what it means.
Mommy to Braxton & Parker

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Re: Desperate for sleep:1yr old, need bw coaching..PLEASE
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2009, 21:02:22 pm »
Hi Jennifer- hugs again- you sound very frustrated!  Okay, from what I can read from afar, a couple of things stand out for me:
- At 12 mos old, you do PD, not PU/PD. So don't pick up! Just go in, say your calming phrase of choice, "night night" or whatever, lay your LO back down. SOme folks leave the room, others stay in and keep PD again and again. For my LO, I left the room and stood right outside the door. On long nights I kept a chair outside the room so I'd have a place to sit- LOL.
It IS exhausting, but if you keep consistency, you will see results.
-Next, a child of 12 months does not require night feeds. It is possible your LO has come to expect that. As long as your LO is well nourished, eats well during the day, then I'd cut out the Nightfeeds if you want your LO to start STTN. I hear you on the fear that your LO will not go to sleep without it, but you are TEACHING your LO to sleep independently. So, after about a week of sticking to your plan, you should start to see a difference. I actually did cold turkey with a pacifier addict, and it wasn't pretty for the 1st hour, but he gave up and STTN. It took a good 3 days at 6 mos old.
-Another thought- do you think your LO is getting close to dropping the AM nap? If he can go from say 7AM-11:30AM then nap once for 2.5 hours, that would take him to 2 PM, then aim for a 6:30 or 7 PM bedtime.
-Mantra cry, well, I always think of it as an overtired repetitive whiny cry. I've never been good at reading Nick's signals- he's really spirited and it was a hard first year.  If Nick is happily playing in the crib at nap time, and seems drowsy, I let him quietly play until he's asleep. Usually he's good and tired and drops right off. It almost sounds like your LO is undertired at naps to be that energetic and playing.
When Nick was going through his motor milestones walking/running, he wanted to continually practice- that was really a crazy time. I remember sitting on the floor exhausted as he ran about the  room and up and down the hall laughing. He was up till 9:30 some nights practicing. I just tried bedtime, if it was a no go, I'd take him out, let him run around his room for 40 mins, then start bedtime all over again and half the time he'd go right out.
sorry this is so rambling...
BTW, are you in the states?
Cathie
                Nick spirited angel, born August 2, 2007

Offline jltay

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Re: Desperate for sleep:1yr old, need bw coaching..PLEASE
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2009, 22:24:33 pm »
Oh, God, I've been doing so much wrong then.  No wonder he gets so mad (seemingly) when I pick him up to comfort and when he calms put him back down.  He'll kick, and scream until there is no sound, it breaks my heart and makes me feel like I'm neglecting/abusing him. Accidentally, he has totally skipped an am nap and had a fat mid day nap then bed at 6 or 6:30.  But the problem is that I have to pick up my other son at preschool at 1, 2-3 days per week so I would be getting him up and throwing him in the car without any time for feeding.  What would I do about that?  As far as leaving and coming back in, when would l leave, when do I return? And cutting out the nighttime breastfeed, should I slowly take that away, say only nurse on one side, then back in bed, or quit alltogether?  And how am I sure when he screams for 3 hours, he hasn't burned up so many calories, he's hungry again or even thirsty?  How can I be assured he's getting enough food during the day?  Should I move the before nap nurse to earlier to seperate the two or keep nursing before, and maybe even after to assure enough fat is gotten in the day time?  Ugh, more questions I know, I just want to make sure I'm doing it right so I don't end up screwing my kid up.  I hate to think I'm doing this all so wrong and he's paying the price! Again, Thank you, thank you!
Mommy to Braxton & Parker

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Re: Desperate for sleep:1yr old, need bw coaching..PLEASE
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2009, 22:51:18 pm »
OH, goodness, you sweet mama- you are doing fine, it is sooo stressful to feel like your child's whole life is dependent on one moment in time. Please know that your LO feels your love and support.  Believe me, I've leaned on folks so much on this site.

Let's start with PD. firstly make sure he is dosed with pain meds if you suspect any pain contributing. Okay, so, he will hopefully do better with you standing by the crib and doing PD. When you do your nighttime routine, and then put him in his crib, then you walk out even if he protests. you stand/sit outside the room quietly. if no fuss, great, turn on the monitor and have a nice night. If he cries, let him do so for say 1 minute unless it's REALLY intense I NEED YOU NOW screaming. Then walk back in, lay him down, say night night and walk back out. I did this faithfully for several nights. Now, if he has separation anxiety starting, he may holler quite a bit, and you may need to stay in the room and sit on a chair for a bit...If you stay in the room, do not interact/make eye contact, engage in play. once he's calm, walk back out. I actually had to TELL Nick, "mama is going to sleep, mama will always come back for you, it's time to sleep. etc." Because I had rocked him to sleep, he was MAD at first, I also told him," I am NOT rocking you tonight. Go to sleep." it is hard, but you can do it!

Okay, on to the food. How does your LO measure on the growth charts? Does he eat well? good variety of foods. meals 3 times a day plus snacks? As long as he's eating well, is growing well, is happy and plays with good energy, he's probably fine. If you are really worried about hunger you could give a sippy cup full of milk about 30 mins prior to bedtime. If there is a NW, you could have a sippy cup filled with water ready to go at his bedside- we did that for a while. That way when Nick woke- we'd give him a drink and lay him back down. How much is he actually taking at night? A full feed, or just a comfort slurp?

hmmm, 3 hours of screaming? at night? or daytime? I really never let Nick continue if he's that worked up. He's done 1.5 hours of crying/fussing on a bad night when paci weaning, etc... When he was learning to walk, I gavehim some bedtime shifting as needed. I'd give him 35 mins and if he truly wasn't able to sleep, I'd "reset" him by letting him out to run around and try again.


as far as the naptime goes...it's so hard when you've got to pick up another child at 1PM...is there anyone you trust who could pop in and stay with your LO while he sleeps, even for the 15 mins (i'm guessing how long???) it takes you to pick up your son from preschool? Or is there anyone who could pick up your child for you?
Do me a favor, please post ;your schedule for your LO like this:

Wake: 7 AM
Eat: nurse at...breakfast at...
Activity time
Sleep: naps from ....to
Wake:
Eat:               etc etc....
Hopefully i can help you get things in order again.
You may want to post on props board too to see if anyone has info about dropping a nightnursing that has become a prop to get your LO to sleep. I know others have been through it, but my LO self weaned at 10 mos...sigh.

hope I haven't totally bombarded you with info. if anyone else is lurking, please chime in!

BTW-what is your bedtime routine? we do bath, books with lovie in the rocker, sing the same nighttime song, into crib.
Cathie
                Nick spirited angel, born August 2, 2007

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Re: Desperate for sleep:1yr old, need bw coaching..PLEASE
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2009, 22:57:06 pm »
then try to pat his back to sleep but he'll keep sitting up, or standing up, not always crying, he starts crying if I do pu/pd and usually cries hysterically if I try to touch him. 
If he's not crying, just leave and let him sort it out, if he whines, don't go in. If he cries, go in comfort and leave. I also really don't pat anymore as my LO is very spirited and it works him up.

What temperament is your LO? spirited? touchy? That can make a difference in your approach.

Just a thought, on the days you pick up your son from preschool, can you put your LO in the car at 12:30 after lunch and drive while he sleeps and carry him into the house quietly, put him in the crib and let him finish sleeping in the crib? ....
Cathie
                Nick spirited angel, born August 2, 2007

Offline jltay

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Re: Desperate for sleep:1yr old, need bw coaching..PLEASE
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2009, 17:52:32 pm »
Oh, so much to report, first, I'm sorry I forgot to answer you earlier, I am in the States, Kentucky.  I spent yesterday doing BW with all your new info and tweeked the way I put him down and comforted him.  The first nap, I tried for almost 2 hours to get him to sleep and eventually had to get him up to go get my son.  I didn't pick up (he seemed extremely angry about that, screaming, awful) only put down with "time to go night, night" and "it's okay, we're only going to sleep".  When he would sit up, if he was quiet, I would lay him down with the phrase and he would either start screaming again or he would roll over and crawl away from me.  If he was not crying, I would leave.  When he cried, I would return to comfort.  I did this for both naps for the entire nap period.  My problem with that was that he would scoot to the farthest corner from me so I couldn't reach him to pat so I tried to keep a hand on him whatever I could reach.  IT really did seem to aggrivate him, he would take my hand and push it away or get distracted by it and start playing with it.  I'm wondering if I should pat or even touch when he's writhing around and screaming.  Then when he tries to settle, should I then pat or rub his back?  Last night, I had to work hard to keep him awake while he took his last nurse before bed because he hadn't slept all day.  He did fall asleep eating even after many attempts to rouse him, no hope.  I still went through the little before bed ritual while trying to hold him up and when I put him in his crib, I patted for a couple of minutes.  Then I went in after 20 minutes and tried wake to sleep, he did flinch but I was afraid he was so OT he would wake.  After one hour, he woke, I tried to sneak in at the first sound and pat his back but he pulled up anyway, crying.  It took me an hour and 45 minutes doing exactly what I was supposed to do.  What finally did it was he flopped down on his side in his crib close enough to me so I could hold his hip with one hand and pat his back with the other.  He had found his paci a couple of minutes before that so he laid there sucking while I patted firmly for about 10 minutes.  He went to sleep.  I sneaked in 2 times and did wake to sleep, then went to bed.  At 12:45 he woke, I went in said the phrase, laid him back down, he popped back up.  So I offered him sippy with water which he happily drank a good swallow or two.  Then I resumed laying him down each time he got up.  I could tell he was wiped because after about 20 minutes, he flopped down in the same place as before and I patted just like I did earlier.  I went back to bed and he slept until 6:30.  I woke with breasts so full of milk I was desperate to nurse.  I went in and he refused one breast because it was so full he was confused.  So I offered him the other and he ate happily and sleepily and dozed off as he emptied it.  So I offered him the other, he refused again, so I laid him back in his crib and he sat up.  I laid him down again and he sat up, meanwhile the light was beginning to peek around the darkened windows I hung towels over.  So I got him up and as he slowly woke up, I changed his diaper and took him downstairs.  He seemed weird the whole time, sort of confused and glazed over.  I took him to may barely waking husband and told him I had to pump before I exploded.  So he sat in bed with him and I pumped my painfully full breast, then offered it to him at which time he took it for a few minutes then emerged more like himself.  We ate, dressed, played then ran 2 quick errands quick snack, breastfeed, then just got him down about 5 of 11.  It took alot to keep him up during breastfeed but you could tell he was hungry and he ate well.  After he ate while he was very soggy, I sat his up, burped and did the wind down turned off the lights, then in the crib, he woke up and started crying but laid there, I rolled him to his side and patted for about 7 minutes while he sucked his paci, and he was out!  I hope it's a good nap, it's rainy which helps.
So today has gone,
6:30 wake, nurse
7:00 change diaper, a little play with daddy and brother
7:30 nibbled on cereal
8:00 dressed and played
9:00 ran errands with mommy while nibbling pretzels
10:30 breastfeed
10:55 asleep
Cross your fingers, I'll keep you posted.
Oh and I though that on days when my oldest is in school, I would try a morning nap but wake him early, feed him and put him in the car.
The problem with falling asleep in the car is that it's rare he does that unless we're going far, and it's 10 mintues their and 10 minutes to collect him then 10 minutes home so he can't sleep through all that.  If he falls on the way home, I'll try to put him down but we'll see.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!
Talk soon.
Mommy to Braxton & Parker

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Re: Desperate for sleep:1yr old, need bw coaching..PLEASE
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2009, 19:52:02 pm »
I didn't pick up (he seemed extremely angry about that, screaming, awful) only put down with "time to go night, night" and "it's okay, we're only going to sleep". 
when you introduce a new technique- they often are quite angry- like HEY! what are you doing???
When he would sit up, if he was quiet, I would lay him down with the phrase and he would either start screaming again
if he sits up and he's quiet, don't worry about laying him down, let him settle himself/leave the room if he's sitting/standing happily
  When he cried, I would return to comfort. Good! I did this for both naps for the entire nap period.  My problem with that was that he would scoot to the farthest corner from me so I couldn't reach him to pat so I tried to keep a hand on him whatever I could reach. 
you don't have to pat if it doesn't work- spirited/touchy babes may NOT like patting.
IT really did seem to aggrivate him, he would take my hand and push it away or get distracted by it and start playing with it.  I'm wondering if I should pat or even touch when he's writhing around and screaming.  nope- I'd take that as a cue not to pat/rub
Last night, I had to work hard to keep him awake while he took his last nurse before bed because he hadn't slept all day.  He did fall asleep eating even after many attempts to rouse him, no hope.  I still went through the little before bed ritual while trying to hold him up and when I put him in his crib, I patted for a couple of minutes. 
If he's that tired and already conked out, it's okay to just lay him down and walk right out
When I went in after 20 minutes and tried wake to sleep, he did flinch but I was afraid he was so OT he would wake.  I wouldn't worry about wake to sleep at this point. Just focus on one method at the moment. I'd work on your PD and WI/WO as needed.
After one hour, he woke, I tried to sneak in at the first sound and pat his back but he pulled up anyway, crying.  It took me an hour and 45 minutes doing exactly what I was supposed to do.  What finally did it was he flopped down on his side in his crib close enough to me so I could hold his hip with one hand and pat his back with the other.  He had found his paci a couple of minutes before that so he laid there sucking while I patted firmly for about 10 minutes. 
Sounds like you are finding something that works for him. I remember having to pin nick's hips down to the crib when he was learning to walk and wanted to practice endlessly. I gave firm pressure and gently held him in place while rubbing his back- LOL I only had to do this for a week or so until he walked solidly...
He went to sleep.  I sneaked in 2 times and did wake to sleep, then went to bed.  At 12:45 he woke, I went in said the phrase, laid him back down, he popped back up.  So I offered him sippy with water which he happily drank a good swallow or two.  Then I resumed laying him down each time he got up.  I could tell he was wiped because after about 20 minutes, he flopped down in the same place as before and I patted just like I did earlier.  I went back to bed and he slept until 6:30.  I woke with breasts so full of milk I was desperate to nurse. 
ouch, my sympathy! I remember that feeling. But hey! he slept for almost 6 hours!
After he ate while he was very soggy, I sat his up, burped and did the wind down turned off the lights, then in the crib, he woke up and started crying but laid there, I rolled him to his side and patted for about 7 minutes while he sucked his paci, and he was out!  I hope it's a good nap, it's rainy which helps.
So today has gone,
6:30 wake, nurse
7:00 change diaper, a little play with daddy and brother
7:30 nibbled on cereal
8:00 dressed and played
9:00 ran errands with mommy while nibbling pretzels
10:30 breastfeed
10:55 asleep
Cross your fingers, I'll keep you posted.

hope my responses above help! :-* You are doing a super job! I must say, I do think he's working on dropping that AM nap! yikes.
Okay, so, If he is whimpering, standing, sitting, etc. Go on and walk out. wait outside for a minute and see if he settles on his own. If not, go back in. Then walk back out. if you need to do his side lying, back patting, and it works to help get his sleep retrained, that's fine! I'm hoping that you are going to see some results in the next few days nad less NWs. so was last night better as far as the number of wakings? BTW- dont' worry about wake to sleep. Let him go undisturbed and see how long he sleeps tonight. Good for offering the water and holding firm at not night nursing- your body will adjust in time!
I do think maybe you could move his nap time to 11 or 12 on a good day and see if you can get a good 2-3 hours out of him...
I feel like I don't know what to write next- LOL! How DID that nap go???
Cathie
                Nick spirited angel, born August 2, 2007

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Re: Desperate for sleep:1yr old, need bw coaching..PLEASE
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2009, 23:03:17 pm »
How are you doing?
Cathie
                Nick spirited angel, born August 2, 2007

Offline jltay

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Re: Desperate for sleep:1yr old, need bw coaching..PLEASE
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2009, 02:54:24 am »
Dear Speechie...I am so deeply sorry for letting your thoughtful posts go unanswered for this long....I have tried many times to make time at the end of the day to log on and get your feedback and I always feel so tired I just fall asleep.  I hope you are still willing to help as we still desperately need it.  I can give you a bried recap of the last 2 months so you know where we are.  After success with your help not long after this last post, he was sleeping through and falling asleep on his own with patting by me of course, with the expception of about a half hour every night at which time I would have to go in a pat him back to sleep.  It wasn't at the same time every night but it was every night.  I started to wonder if I had made him dependent on the back patting.  Anyway, we had one week of this, then he got sick for two weeks.  He was barely eating or drinking anything so of course any time he wanted to nurse day or night, I let him.  Of course there were times he would fall asleep nursing and he was so sick I didn't have the heart to unlatch him.  After he was completely better, I started trying to sleep train again with the same phrases, the same technique of patting and shhing.  It was screaming and crying and trying to pat/shh, WI/WO and no one thing ever really worked.  Then my mom came to visit for a week.  While she was here I took full advantage and spent time trying to get him to sleep at night and back to sleep when he woke but his would still just lay there and cry and cry, for 1, 2, 2.5 hours, me patting away...got him down to only one hour of crying and only 1 time per night.  Then she left, he got sick again, this time for about 10 days.  After that sickness, his personality changed.  He became very reactive, if he didn't like it, he would scream, throw himself on the floor, cry. Then the next week, he started to try to take some steps.  He did the 1,2 step and fall thing for about 2 weeks, then he just walked and hasn't stopped.  Going down for nap and bed wasn't the problem, it was still the waking up, no particular time, always 1-3 wakings per night.  After about a week of trying pat/sh, or just pat back to sleep, I gave up.  I was spent, sleep deprived, walking dead.  So when he woke, I would have my husband bring him to me and I would nurse him back to sleep.  Then daylight savings time happened and he started waking about 45 minutes after  i would put him to bed at night and scream/cry no matter what I did...great BW technique or AP, it didn't matter to him.  He would then always fall back asleep after about an hour with back patting.  BTW, he did drop the nap, he goes down about 11 most mornings and sleeps for 1.5-2, sometimes 2.5 hours.  Last week, he got sick again, weird symptoms, listless, clingy, wanted to nurse all the time, a little cough.  Doc said he was fine, probably teething.  Give him either motrin with Robitussin for cough or Motrin with benedryl for inflammed gums.  I did that for several days and he would still wake, and paw at me as if he wanted to be held.  I couldn't bare refusing him if he was in fact in pain, so I would nurse him or hold him until he was pretty much asleep then lay him down with a little pat and he would go to sleep...but of course wake up.  So here I am, not giving any more motrin or other meds because I don't think it's that.  I think he got so used to and comforted by being rocked, bounced, held, nursed to sleep, he is ED off if that isn't what I'm doing.  Last night he woke around 10 and screamed for 3 hours with the exception of a couple of quiet minutes 2 or 3 times then gave up and went to sleep.  Woke around 4, my husband brought him to me and I nursed him back, I couldn't move I was so tired.  I'm still exhausted and I can't say that I know I will stick to my guns tonight.  I just pray he sleeps until morning because I'm so out of it with exhaustion, I don't know if I can wake and climb the stairs and sit there patting or shhing or talking or whatever works to get him to sleep.  I could use your kind and wise words on some guidance for my now 14 months old who walks and laughs and plays like a maniac.  I think I have a spirited child now...maybe with a little touchy thrown in.
I can't wait to hear from you!
Best   
Mommy to Braxton & Parker

Offline speechie

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Re: Desperate for sleep:1yr old, need bw coaching..PLEASE
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2009, 00:12:07 am »
Hi Jennifer-
So sorry you're having problems again/still- you know, it sounds like you've had a real hard time of things with the illnesses- I can relate a little as Nick was hospitalized 2 times this winter for resp illness and it truly threw things off.
OK- so, my advice to you, is reread my advice, and let's start fresh! You may not have the strength to start yet and that's okay, but when you are ready to try to sleep train, I'm here for you as is all the ladies.
One thing that does stickout in your posts is that he's doing a LOT of crying- ? any chance of pain- teething/reflux?
Can you post your new approximate schedule?
wake: 7AM
eat: bf, then breakfast, 8AM
sleep:

etc...
Hope I can help you, I'm so sorry you're so tired and I have been with terrible sleep deprivation before and it is torture.
Hang in there.
Cathie
                Nick spirited angel, born August 2, 2007

Offline jltay

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Re: Desperate for sleep:1yr old, need bw coaching..PLEASE
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2009, 01:30:04 am »
Bless your heart!!!  Thank you for sticking with me, it means the world!!  I re-read everything last night so I'm off to a good start.
Okay so here's where we are:
Wake approx 6:30, nurse
play
7:30 solid breakfast
play, errands
11:00 nap (some days it's 11:30)
1:00ish Wake and lunch (sometimes wakes later if goes down later)
play
3:00 nurse, snack
play
5:00 dinner
6:00 bath, bed prep (every other night is bath, non bath night is quiet time in room with songs and dress for bed)
6:30 sleep

Last night, I did his bed routine and he went right to sleep with patting, then around 8:30, he woke, stood up, crying.  I went in gave him a hug, whispered "it's night, night, lay down" and laid him down and he went stark raving mad...crying sounds I haven't heard before!  This went on for about and hour and a half with me patting and laying him back down every time.  Eventually, he laid down and whimpered while I patted him and he went off to sleep.  Around 11:30 my husband sneaked in and rubbed him until he wiggled.  He slept until about 5:20.  When I went in, he started grabbing at my shirt, I was delirious, so I sat with him in the chair in his room and nursed him a good feed and drifted off in my arms and we both woke with his sweaty head on my sweaty arms around 7.  I know that's not the thing to do but I didn't have to stamina to start any patting at 5 am.  I think my body was really catching up on sleep because when he woke at 5:15 I felt like I had been asleep for days.  So today for nap, I took him up after saying night, night to everything, nursed him and when he was finished I told him night night and put him in his crib.  He immediately started crying, screaming, and started standing up.  I laid him down 4 or 5 times with his phrase and tried to pat his back but he kept standing up so I walked out. AFter about a minute of his screaming, I went back in and he was reaching for me, standing in his crib.  I gave him a hug, told him night night and laid him down (as he sort of threw him self down in protest), he kept standing back up and I laid him down another few times and walked out again.  After about a minute, I went back in, hugged him, told him it's night, night and he threw himself down again but this time laid there and cried while i patted his back.  From beginning to him being asleep was about 30 mintues.  I started his nap early because I knew he would get ticked at me and i had to go pick up my son at preschool at 1.  I did have to go back in and wake him to pick up my oldest son so he almost got a 2 hour nap and was happy and playful the rest of the day.  We had a play date too and he loved it all.  Tonight, he nursed and when I went to lay him down for night, night, he rolled over and started crying and standing up so I laid him down about 3 times then walked out.  When I came back, I laid him back down and he stood up a couple more times so I walked out again.  AFter a minute, I went back in and he laid down and cried for a few minutes on his tummy while I patted his back.  After a few minutes, he got quiet and I kept patting.  After about 5 mintues total, he readjusted, popped his head up to look at me, then laid down and started chatting to himself.  I thought I was in trouble.  Then he turned his head away from me got quiet and I patted for another 5 minutes slowly taking away the pat and he was asleep.  I just heard him stir a minute ago and now he's quiet.  Tonight, I gave him Motrin just in case his muscles where soar or there was teething. I feel like a rock star!  I know he will test me, but I'm ready.  I don't feel guilty, or unsure, he's ready.  The only thing I'm uneasy about is when he sleeps as long as he did last night and wakes at 5 ish, I can't imagine he isn't hungry which is why he wakes early.  I feel compelled to nurse him after all those hours.  Can you help me with that part?
Thank, thank, thank you!
   
Mommy to Braxton & Parker

Offline speechie

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Re: Desperate for sleep:1yr old, need bw coaching..PLEASE
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2009, 01:55:04 am »
Honey- I am sitting here grinning from ear to ear! You are doing great!!! I am so darn proud of you- amazing what undisturbed sleep does for our stamina!
WOohooo- happy dance.
30 mins for going down at naptime when you are sleep training and undoing illness and bad habits is great!
I also gave Motrin when sleep training to make doubly sure Nick wasn't in pain- maybe some people don't bother, but I needed that reassurance.
I think you'll eventually be able to say nightnight, rub his back gently for a minute and walk out of his room

Ok, lets see a 12 hour night 6:30Pm-6:30 AM is terrific- I like your schedule.
Tell me about his eating habits, weight or percentiles- if he's a good eater and gaining well- kids this age do not need nursing at night. If he is going through a growth spurt then yes, he may need a little extra something. I have a little sippy cup of water in Nick's room so if he wakes before 6AM (my rule) I tell him it's the middle of the night, give him a sip of water and lay him back down. 7 out of 10 times he'll go back to sleep.
Please remember that I have a child who did NOT STTN until 14 mos. It was awful. I now have been really consistent in my approach and we're doing great! We do have bumps after illness, and the 2-1 nap switch was rough.
You may find that your LO will be able to take a longer Activity time in the next few months...so you may need to push the nap back to 12 or 1PM... Just something to keep in mind as things evolve. Every now and then Nick will NEED 2 naps and I just go with the flow.
Keep it up! You are finding your way beautifully.
Cathie
                Nick spirited angel, born August 2, 2007