Author Topic: E and S times too close together - nursing to sleep  (Read 1904 times)

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Offline monopod

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E and S times too close together - nursing to sleep
« on: January 05, 2009, 12:11:05 pm »
I'm full of questions today :P Please bear with me while I try to get LO and me sorted out after several weeks of everything being topsy-turvy (weight issues, holiday, hospital!)

LO is nearly 7.5 months and can stay up for 3 hours on average (sometimes more, sometimes a little less). The main difficulty I see is that when I'm trying to put him down for his nap, it's 3h or so since his last milk feed and then if I don't manage to get him down straightaway, I am ending up feeding because I think he's hungry (or will wake early hungry if I don't), but because he's also tired he falls asleep at the breast and then we end up with nursing-to-sleep issues.

How do I get round this?

Our routine is quite loose at the moment as we haven't got back on track yet and LO has also changed a lot over the past 6 weeks, but generally he is having 2 longer naps/3 shorter ones, feeding 5x a day (and too many at night, though that's in my other thread in Night Wakings), and we're also weaning (we'd done some BLW before our holiday when he'd just turned 6 months but it went on the backburner while we were abroad, and we've only just restarted - I'm intending to do a combi of standard weaning and BLW). So far we're only in Week 1 and I've only done breakfasts with rice and mixed-grain porridge.

Any help would be gratefully received!

Offline Peek-a-boo

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Re: E and S times too close together - nursing to sleep
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2009, 19:04:33 pm »
My DD has a similar wake time.  I don't know that this is the right answer, but it's what we do . . . about 20-25 minutes before her nap time, I nurse her on one side.  I nurse her in the living room and keep an eye on her to make sure she doesn't try to doze off (although 20-25 min before nap it's usually not a problem).  Then we head to her room, change diaper, have a tiny massage, a cuddle, and go down for her nap.  It means her feeds are too close together for her age and, although I like to think of it as splitting the feed ;), it could also be looked at as snacking. 

There's probably a more properly BW solution, lol, but I'm not sure what it is.  :-*
« Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 19:06:55 pm by Peek-a-boo »

Offline monopod

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Re: E and S times too close together - nursing to sleep
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2009, 20:10:39 pm »
Sorry for not replying earlier! Thanks for your post Peek-a-boo :) It's interesting to hear others' experiences. Funnily enough, right after I posted this he started settling really easily for his morning naps and the dilemma of 'to feed early or not?' was sidestepped! So far we seem to be managing on a shorter morning nap of about an hour (with me waking him from that nap to feed), as he's been going down pretty much right at the 3h mark in the morning. We're playing it by ear in the afternoon depending on how tired he is (as a consequence of his interrupted morning nap!)

Actually, that's a question... presumably I *am* doing the right thing by waking him from his morning nap for his feed, and not letting him sleep for longer?

Offline Peek-a-boo

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Re: E and S times too close together - nursing to sleep
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2009, 20:20:58 pm »
Hmmm . . . lol, I so hate waking my baby from naps, that it honestly would never even occur to me to wake her that early in a nap for a feed!  I assume it's working out with the way your naps fall the rest of the day?

I'm going to see if I can find somebody who's a little better with BW feeding philosophy to chime in.

Offline monopod

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Re: E and S times too close together - nursing to sleep
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2009, 20:26:05 pm »
If by 'working out' you mean the nursing to sleep, I think so :P At the moment the only feeds he falls asleep at are the middle-of-the-night ones, but I'm ok with that :) Although he did fall asleep less than five minutes after our final feed tonight, but he didn't doze off during the feed and he was awake when I put him into his cot, so it must just have really chilled him out ;D

Offline charmie

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Re: E and S times too close together - nursing to sleep
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2009, 12:37:51 pm »
TBH At this age I wouldn't wake him from a nap to feed.  How many feeds is he having a day?  Maybe posting your routine will help us get a better idea of what is going on.



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charm






Offline monopod

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Re: E and S times too close together - nursing to sleep
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2009, 14:19:19 pm »
Thanks charm. At the mo our routine is something like this (we're on a 4h EASY). We haven't quite got back into the swing of things yet since returning from Singapore on the 29th.

E: BF upon waking, say 7am
A: Playtime
E: 2 tbsp mixed-grain cereal with 30-40ml EBM
A: Playtime. Wind-down once he starts showing signs of sleepiness
S: Usually asleep by the 3h mark.

E: BF at 11ish (usually waking him from his morning nap)
A: Playtime
E: Lunch - varies; at the mo he's having about 2 tbsp of solids here as well (he's had chicken, veg and rice, salmon, parsnip, spinach. He's also tried some finger foods like rice cakes and fruit).
A: Playtime
S: This is where our routine gets a little loose. Generally the timing for this goes by his cues and how long his morning nap was. If he did fall asleep around the 3h mark, I suppose I would have woken him again for a feed close to 3pm, but he'd get more if he fell asleep earlier.

A: From whenever he woke up
E: BF usually around 3pm
A: Playtime, watching for cues again
S: Catnap if he'd woken early from his second nap or hadn't had enough sleep. Again timing for this varies, and I offer it depending on whether he looks like he needs it.

A: From - er, whenever! Quiet A, including a bath if he needs one
E: BF between 6 and 7
A: Wind-down before bed
(Sometimes a further BF here as a top-up) 
S: Asleep between 7 and 8.


Not sure how helpful that is :P Over the past couple of months I've been particularly concerned about getting as much food into him as possible during the day, first because of poor weight gain and worries about my milk supply (I did some cluster feeding (EAEAS) towards the end of November) - he did seem to put on a good amount but then lost pretty much all the weight when he fell ill - then second because of his numerous NWs (he's been feeding up to 3x at night in addition to the 4 or 5 BFs during the day, though we got back down to 2x last night). He seems to take a full feed each time unless we're out and about and he gets distracted.

He was at the 50th centile for weight at birth but is now tracking along the 2nd. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with him though - he's healthy, happy and reaching all his milestones. But I guess I'm still a bit hung up on his weight. 

Is there anything else I can add that might help?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2009, 14:21:37 pm by monopod »

Offline charmie

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Re: E and S times too close together - nursing to sleep
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2009, 16:05:00 pm »
Monopod at this age you don't have to follow a 4hr routine anymore.  His feeds can stretch for longer, and he might actually take more in less feeds than he is doing now.  Most babies do.  Here is a link with typical routines for babies the same age as your lo;

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=10386.0

Hope this gives you a better idea of what your routine should look like more or less.  At this age he should be taking two 2hr naps.


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charm







Offline monopod

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Re: E and S times too close together - nursing to sleep
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2009, 18:50:16 pm »
Oh. Oops. :P

Ever since the weight and supply issues I've been so intent on bfing him as much as possible that I guess I forgot to account for his growing up  :-\

Thanks charm; I will go take a look at the sample routines and pop back if I have any questions!

Offline charmie

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Re: E and S times too close together - nursing to sleep
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2009, 19:30:11 pm »
Anytime.  Let us know how you get along.


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charm






Offline monopod

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Re: E and S times too close together - nursing to sleep
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2009, 15:33:29 pm »
Hi charm, just to say that our naps are back on track! He is settling completely independently or with only minor help, and has been taking long naps - 1.75h to 2h (and I'm even having to wake him then). I wonder how much this has to do with all his NWs - maybe he's sleeping well during the day because he keeps having rubbish nights :P

He is a strange one though. After 5h he still doesn't seem frantic for a BF! It's not as if he had all that much porridge in the morning...

Offline charmie

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Re: E and S times too close together - nursing to sleep
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2009, 19:21:41 pm »
That's great  ;D ;D ;D

So what kind of routine are you doing now?  If you want we can have a look at the nasty NW's.


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charm






Offline monopod

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Re: E and S times too close together - nursing to sleep
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2009, 20:54:15 pm »
Ooh, would you? I have a thread in the NW forum but any more pairs of eyes would be warmly welcomed! ;D

This is our routine at the mo (based on a 7am wakeup - usually give or take 30 mins):

A: 7.00
E: BF upon waking
A:
E: 8.00 solids - mixed-grain porridge with EBM and water
A: Wind-down starts once I get sleepy cues
S: 10.00 asleep for 1.5 - 2h

A: From 11.30/12.00
E: BF upon waking
A:
E: 1.00ish solids - varies but he isn't eating all that much at the moment. Only about 5 tsp max. I think!
A: Wind-down as before
S: 2.30/3.00 asleep for 1.5-2h

A: From 4.00/4.30
E: BF upon waking
A:
E: Finger food time - this one's more for exploration and play right now than actually getting any food into him
A: Bath and wind-down
E: 6 - 7 final BF, then final bit of wind-down (cuddles and songs) before bed
S: Asleep 7-7.30

Any help gratefully received!

Offline charmie

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Re: E and S times too close together - nursing to sleep
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2009, 20:58:39 pm »
The routine seems great.  How old is your lo again?  Can you go into more detail on the NW's?  Or else just post the link to the NW's thread.


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charm






Offline monopod

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Re: E and S times too close together - nursing to sleep
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2009, 21:03:50 pm »
Thanks charm - this is my thread in NWs: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=141124.0

My LO is nearly 8 months.

Any other info needed, please let me know!