Please help my six month old will not sleep longer than 30-40 minutes at a time

[KaiArsenault]

HI please help my six month old will not sleep longer than 30-40 minutes at a time during the day.  At night she sleeps all night with no night waking and has been since 6 weeks old, however has been doing the 30-40 minute naps since at least 2 months old.  Her old schedule up until the holidays was as follows

7:00 wake and formula
830 nap
910 wake
1100 formula
11:15 nap
12:00 wake
2:00 formula
230 nap
445 formula
5:00 nap
540 wake
715-730 bedtime

There were solids introduced in there too just dappled though

Her schedule yesterday was as follows ( trying to get her on a more regular schedule now that the holidays are over and she is taking solids regularily)

700 wake and formula
800 cereal
900 nap didn't fall asleep until 945
1030 woke
1045 formula
1145 solids
1200 nap
1250 woke
145 bottle
245 nap
320 woke
415 formula
445 solids
500 nap
540 woke
715 bedtime

This is what i have tried so far to extend her naps, i have tried leaving her to cry it out, doesn't work just gets so upset past going back to sleep.
I have tried pat and shh doesn't work sees me and is instantly awake and reaches for me
I have tried waiting 20-25 minutes after she wakes to see if she will put herself back to sleep she doesn't just cries louder and longer.
I have tried simulating night routine through the day, garbage bags over the windows and such no change
(the only difference is she does not get a bottle before nap the way she gets a bottle before bedtime at night)
I have tried putting her down 15mins before she is "normally" tired or showing signs of, didn't seem to matter
I know she is overtired and it is a cycle we are stuck in.  She cries everytime she wakes from a nap.  The only time she doesn't cry when she wakes is in the morning during her first wake of the day, of course because she is well rested.  I am really stressed over this , i have a four year old who i feel i am not spending enough time with because her sister is always up and demands a lot of attention as most six month babies do.  What am i doing wrong?  I just can't seem to figure it out.  I am afraid that my family is suffering because of this especially the baby.  Please help.

[A pair of Charlies]

Is there anychance that she could be tired during the day but just not tired enough to sleep for a long period? I had similar with my DS who was always ready to crash and burn at 2hrs A time up to 7 months old. I knew he should beable to handle more A but he was always so tired. Increased his A times (gradually on first day, 5 min extra at each A time), then 15 mins the next day (A time then consistent all day) and stuck to that. I saw results really quickly - he slept for 1 1/2 hr straight off. I extended the A time at first by really wacking him out then extending the wind-down time by looking out the window quietly or a slow, unexciting walk around the house.

Just an idea. Random shot in the dark. 

[A pair of Charlies]

I have this bookmarked. Not sure if it helps, now or useful in the future:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85134.0

[KaiArsenault]

So try extending her a time by five minutes or so, but i find it harder to get her down if i do that so i think the problem is more so that she is overtired.....i don't know like this morning for example i pushed her probably 15 minutes longer than she should have gone and she only slept 25 minutes

[A pair of Charlies]

Hmmmm.... 

You need an expert and that's not me I'm afraid.  I'll have a think but in the meantime I'm sure someone who knows their stuff will be along soon. 

[lilac83]

Hi there ~

After looking over your routine it does look like your LO is taking UT naps. They usually seem to be about 45 minutes long. However, keep in mind that an accumulation of UT naps will lead to OT. I think you may need to push A times a bit but it seems like the extra 15 minutes was too long. Try lengthening the first A time by just 5 minutes per day or even every other day if your LO is touchy about that. The average A time for a 6 month old is about 2.5 hours. However, after a short nap the A time may need to be shortened by 15-30 minutes.

Does your LO have a paci or any other sort of prop?

[KaiArsenault]

Thank you so much for all your advice, yes she does have a pacifier but doesn't really rely on it to sleep, like tonight for example, i fed her put her to bed with her pacifier and she then talked herself to sleep and doesn't require me to give it to her again.  Also with her naps she will wake up crying with it in her mouth so it isn't like she is waking up because it fell out.  Should i extend her A time by five minutes or so by the first sleep que i see?

[KaiArsenault]

Ok so i am trying to get my LO on the EASY schedule as close as possible anyways  This is how this morning went:

6:40 awake (making noises but not fully awake)
6:50 fully awake
7:00bottle
8:00 cereal
8:20 showing signs of being tired (yawned and rubbing eyes)
8:25 went into wind down mode
8:30 alseep 

Now my concern is when she wakes sometimes she wakes happy do i do the pu/pd to get her back to sleep?  Or sometimes she wakes crying then she poops.  What do i do then?  I would really like to extend her naps.  Am i putting her down too early or should i push her longer?  which would be my question above about pushing her A time by five minutes.  I was reading Tracey's book and there is some conflicting info if anyone could clarify for me that would be great_ one section says 6 month olds should be able to do 2 hours Playtime and another part says 2 hours Awake time including time to settle to sleep, now it doesn't seem that my little one always needs 20 minutes to settle so again do i ignore her tired signs and push her and risk OT but on the flip side i don't want to be producing UT naps either, please help!

[KaiArsenault]

Sorry i also wanted to say that today is the first day i am trying the easy schedule so i am following traceys' advice on how to do it in her book The baby whisperer solves all your problems, so i know that i am going to have to follow and stick with the pu/pd routine so any suppport or advice is welcome

[KaiArsenault]

Okay so she slept half hour this morning woke up happy as a clam what do i do? Leave her to fall back asleep and intervene if she is having trouble?  Do i get her up?  Ahhhhhhhhhh!

[KaiArsenault]

So i went in and noticed her head turning back and forth and rubbing her eyes, so i did the pu/pd just had to pat and reassure and she seemed to settle.  I never left her room she then got upset again so went through the same procedure.  She never did go back to sleep but i kept doing it until 1030 which was two hours from the time she went down.  Is that how i should do it?  so now i know i am going to have an ot baby on my hands so i will hold her off until 1230.  tomorrow should i maybe push her A time to closer to nine and just change the scenery when she starts to show signs of being tired.  That way maybe she will be really tired enough to sleep as opposed to just tired enough to rest.

[A pair of Charlies]

I'll have a think and will come back to you later tonight. A bit stumped here...     

[lilac83]

Her tired cues may be somewhat unreliable at this age. A yawn or rubbing the eyes could mean boredom or a need for scenery change versus actually needing to go to sleep. Was she crying this morning when you started PU/PD? This technique will only work if the LO wakes up upset and crying. Also, it's best to only do PU/PD if you can't resettle her in her crib. If she wakes but isn't fussing you can just leave her to resettle herself. Sometimes it can take my DD 30 minutes to resettle. If she hasn't by then I get her up. At 6 months she should be able to do 2 hours A time relatively easily. I would aim for 2 hours right now but shorten it a bit after a short nap. For example, after her 30 minute nap she will probably need to go down for her second nap after about 1.5 hours instead of 2.

[KaiArsenault]

Again thank you so much for responding you have no idea how much this is helping me, okay so i will extend her A time for sure, another question i have is should i be pushing her bedtime a bit, right now she goes down between 7-730 and is gone until 7.  No she wasn't crying when i went in, she woke at 9:00 after a half hour at 9:30 she was still talking and such with no inditcations of going back to sleep i just tried to settle her which was unsuccessful.  so if she wakes happy leave her for half hour and if still happy then get her up whereas if she wakes crying do the settle in the crib and then pu/pd if that doesnt work.  Sorry if i am repeating what you are telling me i am just trying to make sure i understand

[KaiArsenault]

Sorry meant to put this above, should i be giving her 2 hours of Playtime (A time) and then do wind down and bed?