Started sleep training for naps and have questions

[emmiebruce]

Hi, can anyone help with the following please?

I have started sleep training (pat shh) with my 14 wo at naptime.  I am encouraging him to sleep in his cot in a darkened room.  I started on Monday and so far so good, using my technique it takes between 10 and 30 mins to settle him to sleep, even over three days this has shortened.  I have a consistent nap routine and plan to stick with it as it seems about right.  I have 2 problems, the first is the dreaded 40 min nap and the second is overtiredness.

I am going to try w2s to help the short nap and was wondering do I start it now as well or is that too much at once? Should I establish the naps first and then try to extend them?

This leads to my second question.  The short naps mean that lo becomes OT sometime between lunch and late afternoon.  When this happens the nap thing gets really hard, I tried to settle him for an hour yesterday but he just couldn't drop off.  Usually when he is OT I take him for a walk and the pram and fresh air gets him to sleep, if I continue to do this when he is really tired will this work against my nap routine?  I don't want to confuse him but I don't want to let him cry with tiredness in his bed, even with me with him, as I don't want to create a negative association with his cot. 

I know Tracy talks about taking things in baby steps so I was thinking that I would use the nap routine for the most part but if things start to go wrong then I will step in to avoid OT.  As he gets used to the naps then he most likely will settle quicker and sleep better and the OT will get less.

Do you think I am doing this right??

[KathrynK]

hi there
sounds like you have really thought this through and are on the right lines! 
can you post your usual routine to see why lo is getting OT. Specifically, how long is his A time? Having shorter naps means needing to then shorten the A time so they don't get OT.
Post your routine & we'll see if we can help
xxx

[emmiebruce]

Our usual routine is based on a 3.5 to 4 hourly feed pattern and is something like this:

E 7am
A 1 hr
S 8am (20 mins to settle, asleep at 8.20 for 40 mins)
A 1 hr
S 10am (asleep at 10.20 for 40 mins)

E 11am
A 1 hr
S Midday (asleep at 12.20 for 40 mins)
A 1/2 hr
S 1.30pm (asleep by 1.50 for 40 mins)

E 2.30pm
A 1/2 to 1 hr depending on tiredness
S 40 mins
A 1/2 to 1 hr
S 40 mins

E 6 to 6.30 pm
A/S bedtime routine, asleep by 7pm

As you can see, the afternoon timings vary slightly depending on tiredness levels.  I find it increasingly hard to get him to sleep as the pm progresses even though I know he is tired.  Today he was def tired but after his initial cot protest (about 5 mins!) he just lay there turning his head from side to side and smiling at me.  I must be doing this right as this is the first day where we haven't a total OT meltdown by the end of the afternoon...

[emmiebruce]

anyone??

[anna*]

Are you able to use shh-pat to extend his naps? Sounds like he could really do with some longer sleep.

Is he only awake for 1 hr before his next nap? A time should include all the time he spends feeding and all the time winding down before he sleeps. At this age, most can handle around 1hr 30 mins awake.

anna
x

[KathrynK]

hello
sorry for not replying sooner, have had a mad couple of days!

Alex is 18 weeks today, and at 14 weeks he could definitely have much more A time than your lo is having at the moment. I think this is the reason for your short naps, as he is undertired for them, and then the short naps then start to cause ot by the end of the day, meaning a bit of a double whammy!

Looking at your routine, I would suggest when you are putting him down he is not tired enough. For example, if you look at your routine, at 10am, 12.00 and 1.30pm each time it takes 20 minutes for him to fall asleep. (If I get Alex's "window" just right, he takes only max 5 mins to fall asleep once in bed.) This suggests to me that your lo's "preferred" A time is therefore 1hr & 20 mins, as that's the total time he's awake for. So I would take him to bed after he's been awake for 1hr 10 mins, or 1hr 15, depending on how long your winddown routine is and how easy he settles into bed. This still gives him plenty of time to drift off before that magic 1hr 20 mark so he won't get OT.
If you find that's still giving you short naps then try stretching him a bit- Alex could easily handle 1hr 30 total A time at this age, like Anna said. I would take him up to bed after 1hr 20-25min of A time to give him time to fall asleep independently.
This would then hopefully solve the problem of short naps which in turn would mean he doesn't get OT by the end of the day.

hope this helps!
x

[emmiebruce]

I know that most can take a longer A time at this age but then most have longer naps don't they??!  By the hour mark he is rubbing his eyes, yawning and fussing, too much longer and he goes into meltdown.  Once in his cot it takes 20 mins of pat shhh to get him to sleep, sometimes more and sometimes a little less.  I will try waiting ten mins more before getting him to bed and see what happens.  If I'm honest, I'm not conviced it will make him sleep any longer but then I didn't think the nap thing would work at all and I've been proved wrong there!

I have tried longer and shorter A times, pat shhh and wake to sleep, NOTHING makes him sleep longer, you can set your watch by him, get to that 40 minute mark, the eyes open and that's it.  To be honest most of the time he is quite happy when he wakes, I just wish I could encourage longer naps...

[anna*]

If you think he'll wind up OT, I'd stick with what you've got, or just push it by 5 mins for a few days and see what happens, before pushing it any further. Have you tried going into his room at 30 mins and starting shh-pat again to see if you can get him past the 40 mins mark? I remember at this age it felt like I would spend my whole life shh-patting, but it does get better eventually.

anna
x

[emmiebruce]

Thanks for all your advice so far, but can anyone answer my original questions lol!!

[anna*]

i would definitely try W2S. If you think that OT is becoming a serious issue, then by all means use whatever methods will work to help him catch up on sleep.

anna
x

[emmiebruce]

Sorry another question, what a pain eh?!

He is currently still in our room which is at the front of the house and we live on a semi busy road.  At night time it is quiet but during the day you can guarantee that if something noisy comes along it will be right on the point where he is just dropping off.  I was wondering about moving daytime sleep into his room in the travel cot but now I've started will it confuse him again?  We also have blackout blinds and curtains in the nursery so it will be much darker than our room in the day...

[anna*]

I'd try for the naps in his nursery. Make it as much as you can like his cot in your room - ie in the same sleeping bag, use the same lovey, anything you can to make it familiar. Maybe start off with just one nap in there and see how it goes.

anna
x