how to get out of the worst OT cycle ever

[hjrmom01]

How do you get your LO out of an OT cycle?  Hunter has spiraled out of control in regards to OT.  His A time has been cut to 1 hr and I don't know how to cut it back even further...by the time he gets up, gets his diaper changed, eats, burps, and WD it's an hr...can't get any shorter!  Today he had 1 good nap after 1 hr of A time (and a little Benadryl, thanks to our Ped.) and then another hr of A time same as the one before and we only got 30 min nap...woke up screaming!  It's weird because he'll cry, but smile, but cry....it's like he's confused!  We tried extending...even tried a nice car ride...nothing seems to get us past 30 min!  It's now 6:40, he's been up since 3:35.  He had a quick bath, bottle, and I put him in bed..he's doing his grunting/mantra but he can do it for hours!  Just wondering what you all have done to get past an OT cycle.  I've tried rocking, sleeping with him, car ride, swing, stroller (which we can't do outside because it's about -6 degrees!), and the baby carrier we have isn't like a cradle so he doesn't sleep in that because he's upright and facing me (he just keeps turning his head side to side in it).  His OT cycle is now starting to cause NW and EW.  We are at our wits end.  Honestly, now I see how babies get shaken.....my nerves feel like they are on fire when he screams.  Any suggestions???  I'd post our EASY but there really isn't much of one.

[A pair of Charlies]

  

How old is your LO? 

You're trying just about everything that I would. I'd usually end up taking mine to curl up in bed with me and hold him through the crying til he slept. I became a prop though.

I'm sure someone will come along soon and give you some good advice. In the meantime I've only hugs to offer I'm afraid.    Stay strong. You'll get there and it will be okay. Just keep calm and step outside the room to scream when you have to (easier said than done).
Huge hugs,

Charlotte

[hjrmom01]

he'll be 5 months next month. Thanks again for the support....need it!

[deb]

How have you tried extending? There are different ways to do it. Didn't know if you've had a chance to read this: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=649.0

Are there signs of reflux? Is he more uncomfortable when he's horizontal? (This was a symptom that would've been a big tipoff for us with Josie had we known better.) There doesn't have to be the projectile milk fountains Josie did; the discomfort alone can be dreadful, even when the refluxing is so small as to be unnoticeable otherwise to an observer. (Silent Reflux - check the Reflux FAQ's for the Reflux 101 post if it's still there and see if anything rings a bell.)

How about teething? Nat was starting to show teeth at 4 months, and my mom SWEARS I had teeth at TWO months. Do pain meds before naptime/bedtime make any difference? If so, you know you're on to something.

Is it possible he's got an ear infection that needs treatment? (And I don't suggest that lightly, as older DD here was on WAAAY too many courses of antibiotics as a baby for ear infections.) Have you seen a doctor at all about this?

Breast-fed or bottle-fed? Just wondering about food allergy or intolerance.

Oh, for the screaming? In all seriousness, USE EARPLUGS. Females (women AND girls!) are literally pre-wired to respond to crying babies. Our bodies produce cortisol, which is a stress hormone, when we hear it. The earplugs literally cut the sound and the reaction and make it possible to be halfway sane in the face of a screaming baby, at least for me - and I'm highly sensitive to sound!

Anyway, a few random thoughts to see if we can't get you pointed in the right direction for a solution.

[emmiebruce]

I agree with the pp, earpugs are a godsend when dealing with an OT lo.  I had a similar thing with my lo who is now 16 weeks, I just used to get him to sleep anyway I could at first, mostly in the pram which admittedly was really hard!, and then once he had had some more sleep and the OT was dimished I went back to working on his naps and routine. 

Also teething and illness can cause sleep problems so maybe consider pain medication or teething gel and see if that helps

(((((hugs))))) as you are already doing so well x x

[hjrmom01]

yes, I have used earplugs...but my latest distraction method is my ipod!  I just put in the earbuds and turn on my relaxation music and rock and pat away!  Although, it doesn't work    No amount of shushing or patting helps.  Today, Hunter slept for exactly 30 min (no surprise there) and instead of leaving him to try to get back to sleep I went in and rocked with him, which after a little fussing he went back down...we rocked for at least another 30 min (I fell asleep!) and then I put him back in the crib and he was fine until I opened his door and our dang dogs were outside of it waiting for me and they both started barking!!!!!!  And....Hunter woke up! Tried again to get him back down but it was useless...so we ended up getting up and eating.  Even though it had only been 3 hours we did it anyway because I knew he wouldn't be able to handle staying awake until his next feed plus through his feed.  He did end up screaming during his feed....and the rest of the day was just horrible. 

Deb: I did read that link but I don't know if it applies to us.  It takes everything we have to get Hunter to eat during his feeding, if we were to offer him more before he goes down he wouldn't take more than 1/2 ounce at most.  He does have reflux (we see the peds GI on Thursday) and who knows if it is under control!!!!  He doesn't projectile vomit (only did in the beginning) but he does spit up way after he is done eating and he does gag and choke when eating....he'll suck down 1-2 ounces and then want to be done.  We try to burp and distract for a while then try again, we can usually get maybe 3-4 oz at most, that's on a good day!  When he was STTN he'd take 2 oz for DF and then 3 oz at 7am...I don't know how he's not hungry!  Not sure about teething although he does love to chew on my fingers, his teether, his fingers, basically anything!  We've tried Tylenol, Hyland's teething tablets and oragel but doesn't seem to make a difference :-(  I don't see any swelling or anything indicating a tooth is coming through.  I doubt he has an ear infection, he was just at the dr a few weeks ago and all was fine. But we'll have it checked on Thursday.  He's bottle fed and always has been since he was weaned off finger feeds.  Up until 1/2 month ago it was EBM but he's now in Nutramigen, dr thought to try that in case it was MSPI. 

He's rolled over from tummy to back in the past month but I would have thought that he'd be over that disrupting his sleep by now.  When he wakes up after 30 min he just pops his eyes open, lifts his head and legs and grunts a little bit...and he'll keep doing that.  I left him one morning since he wasn't crying...he did that for 1.5 hrs!!! Then started to fuss but looked like he was going to sleep, only to wake back up...did that for almost another hr.  When I do go in and get him he'll smile and coo, but he's VERY sensitive and the slightest thing will set him off...then we'll put him back down for another 30 min nap.  He hasn't always been a short napper...he used to be on a varied 4 hr easy up until 2 months of age where he'd be awake for an 1 hr to eat and then sleep for 3!!!!  I didn't know about BW until about 3 months of age. 

We really are at a loss about catching him up on sleep since NOTHING will get him past 30 min.  I think his chronically being tired effects his eating which effects his napping which effects his night sleep...one big vicious cycle!!! I think I may have to try just staying in his room for 3 days and feeding him, change diaper, then rock to sleep and hold him and do whatever I can to get him to sleep/back to sleep until the next feed until he can catch up on some sleep. 

[hjrmom01]

I don't want to start a new thread so I'm just adding on to this one.  Am I expecting too much from Hunter??  He's just 5 months old (adjusted just about 4 months) and he's now 12 pounds (we had our GI appt today so I know this for a fact!).  He's still on the small side (about the 5-8th percentile for weight) and doesn't eat very much.  Our GI said we are doing a great job of keeping his weight up, I think it's mostly because I feel like I'm force feeding the poor kid!  He will take 2 ounces and want to be done...but we will stop for 10-20 min and try again...throughout an hour time we might be able to get him to take 3-4 oz at most.  He has an upper GI scheduled so we'll see what that says.  In the meantime, is it unrealistic for me to expect him to be getting to a 4hr easy?  I have NO idea what his A times are since every day is different and we are always dealing with OT.  Last night he woke for his dream feed by 10 (which he has been waking up...not sure if it's for that or because he's ot?), he took 2 ounces, and I put him back down awake, got himself back to sleep. He woke up again at 1:40 but I didn't feed him, he slept off and on until about 3 then he slept well until 5. I fed him at 5, again, only took 2 oz, then he slept fitfully until 7:30 (normally I would get up at 7 to start our day but he was sleeping and I was exhausted, so we enjoyed an extra 30 min!).  He was awake for about 90 min (had him back in bed by 90 min) and then took a 90 min nap (woke up at 30/45 min mark but went back to sleep by himself!).  After that our day went to poo because he fell asleep in his carseat while at the dr office then had to get woken up for the appt :-(  Fell back asleep on the way home only to wake up after I'm guessing 30 min!  He was awake for a bit when we got home, ate, then went back down for a 45 min nap...then unfortunately was awake for 2.25 hrs before he fell asleep for bed...but went down without any protest!  I just don't know if I'm expecting too much from him, like not to be needing night feeds, being able to stay awake longer than 90 min.  I just hear about how by 4 months they should be transitioning to the 4 hr and staying awake longer and eating more...etc....but I feel like we are CONSTANTLY struggling.  It's a struggle to get him to eat, I guess I can't read his sleepy cues well.  Even if he has a 30 min nap, he'll smile when I go in there and he'll happily play for the longest time, if I try to put him back to bed after a bit he just gets mad!  He hasn't always been a chronic short napper, either.  Anywho, enough rambling.  Just wondering if I am expecting too much out of him.  I know every baby is different but I'll just be SUPER glad when he can sleep through the night...even just 6 hours!!!  Oh yeah, does anyone know if preemies hit growth spurts at their actual age or adjusted age? 

[deb]

I'm tuckered from a long day/week, so I'm hoping I can be coherent.

One thing that stands out to me is how little he's taking and that you're feeding him again to try to get more into him. How often is he feeding? Have you started any solids yet? (Not suggesting you should or shouldn't be, just trying to work out the whole picture.)

One thing we noticed with J and her reflux: she would cry and I'd offer her a breast or bottle and she'd suck for all she was worth for maybe - MAYBE - a minute. Here I thought she was crying from hunger, but it turned out to be PAIN, and the milk she drank was SOOTHING the reflux pain. She'd nurse for a while and then pop off the breast and 2 minutes later she'd be screaming again. I was SOOOO confused and frazzled!!! If ONLY we'd known about reflux at ONE month instead of THREE. 

If there IS reflux, then trying proper sleep training if he's in discomfort is only going to be needlessly hard on your both. You'd likely end up with an OT and upset baby and Mommy. I do hope the upper GI gives you something conclusive to work with.

Other random thoughts: does he use/take a pacifier? Back or tummy sleeper? (If back, have you tried tummy? - again, just inquiring.)

For Dream Feed, the idea is to feed them without them actually waking up any more than they would to reflexively take the nipple; in other words, to feed them before they actually wake for it. We were able to sneak in extra calories that way with J for about 2 weeks till her sleep pattern changed and we couldn't find a time when she'd do anything but let the nipple go slack, but by then she wasn't waking for feeds during the night any more so we let it slide. (Around 5-6 months, I think, but you're dealing with an adjusted age, and I hope your ped is taking that into account on the weight charts.)

Anything in there helpful?