back again for help

[kayasmama]

I'm back again for help. My 3 month old lo is still taking 45 min naps and is soooo tired by the end of the day. I am having trouble teaching her to self soothe. I know she can do it because she sleeps through the night. She also wakes super early- 6am, when she eats at 7am. Here is our schedule

wakes between 545 and 615, but is not hungry, esp if she wakes during the night to eat.
E 700-740
A 740-8, start winddown to sleep
S 815-9
A or S 9-10 trying to pat her back to sleep, end up picking her up to pat, which sometimes works
E 10-1045
A 1045-1100, start putting her to sleep
S 1120 ish-1215ish, maybe until 1
E 1-145
A 145-205
S 220-315
E 400
A
S 515-615
630 bath
&00 nurse and bed

She is so wide awake (but tired) when she wakes, little seems to calm her. She is a very active baby. Her room is dark and we use the same winddown routine every time. Shh/pat doesn"t work and pu/pd definitely doesn't work since it just wakes her up more. I have been trying to keep her awake time limited to an hour before I put her to sleep. I tried increasing it, which didn't work either since she cried before going to sleep, which she normally doesn't do. We have done 2 short naps with activity in between, but that often doesn't work either since she is still tired when she wakes after 45 min.

I am at a loss and am so frustrated. What else can I do?

One more question... her last nap is usually short, which is fine since it is so close to bedtime. However, she usually sleeps from 515/530 to about 615/630, takes  a bath at 630 and then eats at 7 and is in bed by 745/8 right after eating. Is that too short a time between her last nap and bed? She cries from when she wakes up from her nap until she eats and goes to bed. She is quiet in the bath but then cries the rest of the time.

[becky1969]

Your first nap is waaaaay too late.  At 3 months, she should be able to do about 1h20-1h30 in A time.  She's waking at 5:45 or 6:15 and not going down for nap until 8:15! That's 2 whole hours, which is what a 5 month old can do!

So, even though she's not hungry when she wakes, that's fine.  if she wakes at 5:45, she needs to be back in bed by 7:05.  And actually, I would treat that 5:45 waking as a NW and not a true waking for the day.  So, I would attempt to soothe her back to sleep.  She's going to bed late enough at night that she really shouldn't start her day until 6:30 at the earliest.  So, try soothing back to sleep.  If that doesn't work, put her back down for a nap by 1h20 after waking, even if she doesn't want to eat before you put her back to bed.  That's OK! She'll be up by 8:30 and since she's eating at 4 am, that's only 4.5 hours and probably within her abilities.

Here's an example routine, working with a 6:15 waking:

6:15 wake for the day
7:20 start wind down for sleep ( you can still try to feed her before that if you'd like, but don't sweat it if she takes a small feed or doesn't take one at all -- this will work itself out over the course of the next couple of days and she won't suffer for skipping a feed a couple of days since she's eating at 4 am)
7:35 sleep

9:05 awake
10:10 start wind down
10:25 asleep

11:55 wake
1:00 start wind down
1:15 asleep

2:45 awake

4:05 asleep (cat nap, so 45 minutes)

4:50 awake
6:00 start wind down
6:15 asleep for the night


See what I'm getting at?

[kayasmama]

Thanks for the advice. By putting her to sleep earlier, won't she keep waking earlier in the morning? Last night was not a good night. She woke every 2 hours and woke up this morning at 545. I fed her once last night at 130. This morning I tried to soothe her back to sleep but finally fed her at 615. I tried to put her right back to sleep but she was hyper and did not fall asleep until 730.I feel like our days and night fall apart a little more each day.

[kayasmama]

Also, she doesn't usually eat at night-only every few nights. Last night was definitely not her norm.how long should I try to put her back to sleep in the morning. It seems like I can't get a consistent wake time.

[becky1969]

It's possible that she's going thru a growth spurt.  If waking every 2 hours is very unusual, then that may be an explanation.  If she wakes like that again tonight, try feeding and see what happens.

Check this out about growth spurts:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=68057.0


Also, at this age short naps are very common due to a shift in REM/non-REM sleep.  We usually address this using a 'holding-thru-the-jolts' method.  Here's an explanation of this:

Going in at the 35 min mark and waiting for the jolt. The beginning of the rise from deep sleep happens at about the 38 minute mark, so if you are there at the 35 you will catch it. Prepare to spend 20-45 mins in the room the first few times you do this. I started it today and it is already working. Get comfy, perhaps on a stool or standing by the crib and gently place your hands on your babys upper arms while she is swaddled. You are basically providing some pressure so that when/if she jolts, your pressure will prevent a startle awakening. If baby opens her eyes, use one hand to hold her arms and the other to shield her eyes with your hand. If the room is really dark you may be able to avoid the eye-part. Otherwise, maintain this position until baby falls back into deep sleep again. You will notice her breathing quicken when she comes out of sleep and she may grunt, life her legs and roll her head side to side. If you use a paci, you can insert it, but don't do so before she opens her mouth for it. Shoving a paci in there when not requested can actually wake her up more. Follow her cues for paci or out. You may put it in and she will close her eyes, rest and spit it out (keep holding her arms) and then suddenly seem like she needs it again - put it back and continue being careful not to let her come out of sleep due to jolts or wanting that paci - it can feel like a juggling act

The first time it may take her 20-30 mins to fall back into a deep sleep, but if you continue this for all naps, you will see that the time it takes her to fall back shortens and this means you will spend less and less time at the cribside.

I'll be happy to explain further if you need it!


Also, this FAQ section just has gobs of great info about problems that occur for your age group:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85499.0


Skim thru it and you may find some answers to questions you didn't even know you had! 



As for going to bed earlier, you may be surprised to know that going to bed EARLIER often results in MORE sleep! The reason is that being OVERTIRED (OT) is probably the prime reason for babies short napping and waking at night.  Keeping their awake time within their limits will really get them sleeping well.  Don't worry -- 6:15 asleep/6:15 awake won't be your routine forever.  Once we can get her sleeping well, then it will be easy to adjust bed and awake times.

[kayasmama]

Ok. One question about holding through jolts. I have tried that and she will wake up and start crying. Do I pick her up or just keep holding?

[becky1969]

You keep holding and see if she goes back to sleep.  If she doesn't, you can try shush/pat or just pick her up and try shush/pat in an attempt to extend nap.  It will take several attempts before it really works.  It's just practice.

[kayasmama]

It works it takes 30 min of holding but she will sleep 2 hrs without waking.is this something that I will have to keep doing for a long time or should she be able to do it on her own soon? Also, she is waking frequently from 330am on and is up by 545/6 still. How do we get back to SSTN?

[kayasmama]

Also when do I start counting her awake time? When I hear her awake in her crib or when I give up putting her back to sleep and get her up?

[kayasmama]

Sorry, one more...this is my lifeline right now...this morning's nap, she slept for only 45 min again. I have been trying to put her back to sleep for over an hour but she is wide awake. When do I give up? I feel like when she takes a short nap to start the day, it ruins the whole day

[becky1969]

Here's the answers!

1) You will probably have to hold for a few days, and no more than a week or two.  I've found it usually only takes 3 days for them to start getting it on their own.  You have to be careful after the first 2-3 days not to jump in too quickly.  Once she is consistently going back to sleep with you holding thru the jolts, then start watching to see if she can transition on her own.  She may still jolt or open her eyes, but then roll over and go back to sleep.  I nearly swallowed my tongue when my DS on Day 3 of holding-thru-the-jolts woke at the 45 min mark (like usual), opened his eyes, and then rolled right over and went back to sleep before I even had a chance to lay a hand on him! Totally surprised me! But don't start testing the waters until you've got a good 5-6 naps in a row of her going back to sleep with your help.

2) Awake time begins the moment you hear her wake.  You may spend 30 fruitless minutes trying to get her back to sleep, but that is 30 minutes into her awake time if she doesn't sleep.

3)  Short naps stink, no matter when they happen. Don't get too discouraged if the first one is haywire -- think  of it as data. You mistimed that nap, so try to figure out why: did you start wind down too late? was her night really wonky so she was more tired than normal in the AM? Use that short nap to help you conquer the problem.

4) I wouldn't try for more than 30 minutes.  After that, it just makes mommy and baby frustrated.  You might shorten A time by 15 minutes to help account fo rthat lack of sleep.  So, you tried for 30 minutes which is 30 minutes into A time, you want to shorten A time by 15 minutes, so that only leaves about 45 minutes until wind down has to start.  Barely time to change diaper and feed her. 


You're going to feel like all you do is run up and down from her room for a few days.  That's OK.  All this hard work is oging to pay off and you'll soon have 2 hour naps for YOU time that will be heaven. 

[kayasmama]

Thanks for the help! She is sleeping for up to 2 hours every nap and we are having to help her less and less already. I actually have to wake her up from each nap to feed her. She also wants to sleep a long time for her last "catnap" which I am not sure is so good. Should I be waking her to eat? It's funny that we are working so hard to get her to sleep, only to have to wake her up

[becky1969]

Well, I probably wouldn't wake her to eat.  On the other hand, we *do* like to keep daytime sleeps to 2 hours at a go.  It helps preserve nighttime sleep.  I also have a LO who likes his daytime sleep something fierce.    Always woke him from naps until he went to 1 nap and then I just let him go as long as he liked.

You could experiment a bit and let her sleep longer for one of her naps to see what happens, but frankly if it ain't broke, why fix it? If you're getting good nights now (just waking for feeds) and great naps, I'd probably just keep waking at the 2 hour mark to keep naps consistent.  Long story short: don't worry so much about feed spacing, but do keep naps to a 2 hour max.  Make sense?

[kayasmama]

Thanks! Now that she is taking better naps and we had at least one good night how do we go about pushing her waketime later. She is still waking between 545 and 615 even when I try to treat it as a NW (didn't work)She woke and ate at 600 and her last feed was at 630 due to a long nap, in bed by 730

[becky1969]

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