Help its been like since since 5 weeks old and how DS is 5 months old

[2beaglelovers]

Hi Everyone,

I have been on this board before and i feel like I will be on it for quite a while.  I have a DS that is 5 months old.  He has been waking at the 45 min mark in his naps since he was 5 weeks old.  AS well as he won't sleep thru the night.  I have been to the dr numerous times and he says that there is nothing wrong with him.  He did have colic but that has now gone.  I have weened him off of his paci about a month ago and he does have a lovey.  I am really at my wits end with this as I have tried everything but pu/pd.  I have delayed using it as we just got rid of the swaddle.  the dr said to let him CIO which I must admit i have tried and there has been little success.  We were all hit with a terrible bug that has lasted quite a while and neither DH or I had the energy to do anything so we needed to let him CIO.  ( I know it is frowned upon)  i really don't know what to do as I have tried everything.  It has been going on for weeks like this.  We had about a week where he did his naps and slept until 6am and then it returned to waking at the 45 min mark and waking at 3 or 4 or 5 am.  We thought it might be a growth spurt so we went in but when I go to get him he stops crying and starts smiling at me.  i have him on a 4 hr EASY and he doesn't always show signs of sleepiness.  He is on cereal twice a day as per dr's instructions to help regulate his BM as he wasn't having them and they were causing him great pain.  any help would be welcome even scolding (LOL) at this point would be great.  I really don't know what to do as he won't sleep and I'm not getting much either. 

[jordiwes]

Hi there,
What does his routine look like right now? What are his nights like? How is he put down for naps and at bedtime?
As for naps, we struggled with 45 minute naps until around the 7 month mark. We played with awake times and used Wake-to-sleep quite a bit (with varying success) to try and get those longer naps. I can relate there.
Any reason you chose CIO over PU/PD? We used PU/PD at that age and it worked like a treat for night time sleep. But also at that age, my LO was still getting a couple of feedings that she needed every night. We found that when she started to fall asleep independantly, her sleep became longer, although she still woke up when she was hungry.
HTH.

[~inbalance~]

Hugs!  I went through the exact same thing, and I've come to the conclusion that there is no magic solution    I'm sorry if it's not what you wanted to hear!  I think some LO's just struggle with sleep, and the only thing we can do for them is try to keep their routine's consistent and pay attention to their needs.  We have been on EASY for 2 months, since DS was 5 months, and we've been through the NWs and short naps.  And it does seem like he gets into a good groove, for a week he will nap exceptionally and I think we've got it, and then BAM!  Back to short naps for no reason!  But I can say that as they get older, night sleep does get better if you stay at it.  I agree with pp, PU/PD helped us during the worst of times.  Once he learned to fall asleep on his own, he started sleeping for longer streches.

As for the naps...last week we had beautiful naps and now they're all crap all the time   Teething, crawling, developmental things...there's always a new reason.  They are always growing and changing to keep us on our toes.  Just gotta keep at it!!

Good luck!!!

[2beaglelovers]

Hello and thanks for the kinds words and hugs.  they are desperately needed.  With regards to CIO that's what both of our Dr's said to do.  Our paed said to consider it exercise and that it is normal for a child to cry for 2 hours.  My Dad said to purchase some ear plugs.  He thought that was funny.  His routine looks some thing like this:

E 7am wake and feed
A until about 9am
S from 9 to 11am  Doesn't work out this way.  He wakes numerous times and cries until about 1045 and falls asleep only for me to wake him at 11ish so he doesn't miss a feed

E 11ish
A until about 1ish depending on when he got up and how well he slept previously
S until about 3 330pm

E 3ish
A until 5 530
S cat nap for half hour but mos of the time it takes him 20 minutes of that half hour to settle and go to sleep

E 530 6pm
A bed time routine with bath and massage and 4oz bottle
S between 730 and 8 depending on how tired he is

DF at 1030ish

He is bf but he gets a 4oz bottle before he goes to bed and his DF is a 5.5 to 6oz bottle that I pump from the night before.  It is a mixture of BM and formula. 

Last night was better.  He woke at 3am because he had a poop and I knew that it was coming so i didn't let him CIO.  i changed himand he went back to sleep until 650am this morning.  His morning nap was terrible but his afternoon one is better with 2 wakings and i pat/shh him until he went back to sleep and has slept a half hour over his wake up.  i need to go get him or he will miss a feed. 

I have never done Pu/pd and I am afraid that I will do it wrong.  How is it done and when should I try it?  I have the books how ever  locating them after the reno has been an on going expedition.  What do you think I should try?

[~inbalance~]

I think your routine looks pretty much on par for his age.  How is he when he wakes from his naps, do you think they are UT or OT naps?  I was having similar problems and it turned out our first nap was short due to UT, and as a result all the subsequent naps were short because he was OT.  I adjusted his first A time and he started napping better (until last week that is! ).  If you suspect he might be UT, then he may be ready for more A time.  It is a tricky age for A time because they may be transitioning to a point where they're ready for more.  You have to keep a close eye for sleepy cues but still watch the clock a little (the cues can be misleading on their own), and really experiment with the A time.

My doctor suggested CIO too .  And I do sleep with earplugs, that way if he is mantra crying I can ignore him.  Call you tell the difference between your LO's mantra and true cries?  It is very important that you're not going to them if they are only mantra crying, otherwise they will never learn how to self soothe.  This is another thing I learned the hard way, and after I started leaving him be when he mantra cried I realized that he would often put himself back to sleep.  The earplugs come in handy

As for CIO/CC, I will be honest.  I was desperate, so I read the Ferber book.  I had worked really hard on EASY, and when I felt we had made all the progress we could, I wanted to look into something more.  Actually, the book has some great knowledge on children's sleep patterns, and if nothing else I still found it useful for that.  I never went ahead with the CC, but I think of it as backup ammunition.  I don't encourage CC, but I do think it helps to have all the knowledge you can on your side.

If you're looking for more PU/PD info, I think there is a whole forum complete with FAQs you can browse through and ask questions.  Let's face it, there will always be crying.  PU/PD is a very useful tool when teaching your baby how to fall asleep independently, and there is crying involved but your baby will never feel abandoned.  I didn't have to do it very much, only for naps and when I weaned the paci.  It is a little extreme, but there is a time and place to use it.  I think the PU/PD moderators can help you get started or clarify any questions you have over in that forum.

Keep us posted!

[2beaglelovers]

When he wakes from his naps he is crying.  I have had 3 times where he wakes up happy.  they have been more frequently though.  I have been playing with his A time.  In the even tonight he went 4 hours with out a nap and no signs of tiredness.  I put him down with no problems.  He was actually wriggling to get out of my arms.  I don't have a problem getting him down but i do have a problem keeping him down.  He wakes at the 45 min mark or so.  i was going to try W2S and i set the timer and everything but he woke up early.  I can tell the difference between the cries.  He starts off mantra crying and then gets ed off and cries really loud and hard.  i let him cry during that.  However if he starts out of the blue with no mantra I know that something is wrong.  Then I go in and deal with him.  Like last night for example I knew that when he woke he had a poop and I went in I didn't let him CIO.  i think he has yet to learn how to self sooth.  How do you help them with that?  I have tried the pat/sh.  Is Pu/pd next?

[~inbalance~]

My son struggled with 2 hrs A time at 5 months (he always seems to be on the lower side of A times), but it didn't take him long to catch up.  If yours is OT, which he may be if he is waking up crying, you might want to keep A time at 2 hrs or less, and work up from there.  That's what I had to do anyway.  I had one week where he actually did 1.5 hrs A time and had good naps, but once he was caught up on his sleep he was ready for more A time right away.  He's almost 7 months now and we're still playing with it, but depending on his night he'll do anywhere between 2 or 3 hrs.  It is frustrating sometimes trying to figure it all out!!

Yours sounds a lot like mine was, goes down easy but doesn't stay awake.  PP is probably right, you probably should try and get his A time nailed down a bit before trying too much else.  It's hard, but it takes a lot of observation and trial and error, and a lot of time!  With my son, the first A time of the day is the shortest, and if we can nail that first nap then the rest of the day is easier.  Start with the first A time.  Give yourself a starting point, try 2 hrs.  When it's almost been 2 hrs, watch his cues, see what he is like (yawning, rubbing eyes, bored, happy, etc).  What I usually do around that time is change him and start winding him down.  Then I can keep an eye on when he is ready for his nap.

After you put him down, the waiting begins.  When he wakes, see how long he slept, what he is like when he woke up.  See if he will resettle.  If he woke OT, maybe he had too much A time or was OS.  If he woke UT (which isn't likely since you say he's usually crying), he might be ready for more A time.  I find that if the first A time & nap don't go well, then you'll have to try again the next day since the next A time for that day will have to be shorter due to the short nap and that throws the whole thing off.  Does that make any sense at all?

Another thing that I find affects our naps is OS.  I have to be very careful what sorts of activities and stimulation DS has before his nap.  For example, I'm careful not to put him in his activity jumper before a nap because it gets him all excited and OT very fast.  I try to keep a lot of activites low key before naptime.

Sorry if I'm confusing.  Finding that perfect A time is really one big experiment, and then when you find it, they're ready for a change!  Let me know how things go!

[2beaglelovers]

Okay...I have adjusted his A time.  Didn't do anything.  i even let him go almost 5 hours with out a nap and he was showing no signs of OT or anything.  He was falling asleep in my BIL swing so I rushed him upstairs where he slept for 32 minutes yesterday.  He went all day with 1.5 hours of sleep total on top of his night time sleep.  He is still waking at the 30 to 45 min mark as now he is waking before his DF.  I don't know what to do.  I really need some sleep myself.  I am going to try W2S but go in early and see if that helps anything.  I tried pu/pd earlier today with no success at all.  He didn't settle or go back to sleep.  He would stop crying when i pick him up but then let out a gut wrenching scream when i put him down.  I just finished reading the pu/pd area and took some ideas and will try them.  Hope fully the W2S will work. 

[2beaglelovers]

Lately he has been sleeping thru the night.  He will wake around 6 but only for a couple of mins then is still sleeping at 730.  Stupid me I go in and wake him.  I am going to take my mothers advice and let him sleep he may do much better if i don't disturb him.  I am worried about my milk supply as i have stopped my meds but the difference is quite alot so I have started them again.  I will need to continue with the meds if I want to keep bfing him.