feel so guilty letting her cry :(

[lilflav]

Hello, I've been trying to gw dd for a while now.  Currently I am mostly out of the room, but sometimes she needs me there and will have a good cry before going to sleep.  She was doing better in the nights.  We had two weeks of either an ew (mostly) or 1 nw at 5-6 am.  Because of the ews she became ot & started having 30 min naps.

This week  she was very ot & had a little cough & runny nose.  She started waking at around 4, then only sleeps in hour increments, probably because of being ot.  I ended up ap'ing for the nws because of her cough.  She still is a little sick, but she can cry w/out coughing & doesn't seem bothered by it much.  I really want to make sure she gets enough sleep so she can get better, so I am still ap'ing a little.  When she wakes at ~4, as long as she lays down for a while & tries to fall asleep I take her out and nurse her.  I put her back awake & she usually goes off by herself.  I am not letting her cry at all if she wakes close to 6 because she will just cry & cry, so I get her out right away & she goes back to sleep for another hour or so.  Tomorrow I am going to try giving her some water right away to see if that is the problem.

I know I probably won't make any progress like this but I don't know what to do.  I don't want to go back to the way things were before (she was up every 2 hrs), but I feel like right now she needs lots of sleep & needs to overcome the ot & feel like she won't do that if I don't ap.  After she gets better I plan to continue w/ not taking her out until wake up time.  I just feel so horrible letting her cry so much & feel guilty every time I do it.   I have not had much luck getting her back to sleep after 6am & she will just cry until 7am (normal wakeup time).  I feel horrible that she gets ot & has a hard time settling herself, like it's not fair of me.  I also fear that df is going to want to pull the plug on this plan soon as he hates her crying even worse.

She is almost 15 months.  I am laying on a mattress by the door & comfort/pd occassionally.  I really need some encouragement to continue with this.  Thanks for listening.

[Maffoos mummy]

I'm sorry, I'm a little confused by your post, blame the tiredness!!  Are you leaving her to cry at 6 because you want her to get up at 7? Ds got up at 5.27 on the dot (literally!!) everyday from 1yr- 2 1/2yrs despite numerous tweaks of his routine/naps etc, that was his natural wake up time. I know it's a personal thing but if she's waking up ready for the day and happy at 6am I'd be inclined to go with the flow-having her cry until 7 when it's "time" to get up I think is not really helping any of you tbh.xxx

[lilflav]

No, she needs more sleep.  That is why she started having the 30 min naps, because she was ot.  She was getting cranky towards the end of the day, but would wake up at around 10 hrs after going to sleep. I figure she needs about 11 hrs.  When I ap she usually goes right back to sleep.  I was thinking about putting her down earlier & shifting her day later, but then she got sick, so I went back to ap'ing.  I have taken a few steps back & feel guilty about her crying so much.  I've been doing this sleep training thing for so long.

[Maffoos mummy]

Ah I see,sorry wasn't switched on properly. Hugs, I totally get you on how draining it is to sleep train a LO.  I always found with ds that bad naps caused bad night sleep, and not the other way around if that makes any sense? So to tackle the short naps which should hopefully then sort out the bad nights...plus you'll have (a bit!!) more energy in the day.xxx

[lilflav]

Sorry, before you replied I wanted to add that since I've been ap'ing her naps are back to normal.  Unfortunately, I am afraid that when I go back to full on training she will become ot again and will have 30 min naps again.

[Mimi 2]

I think it fine to do some APing right now as she is sick.  It doesn't mean you are doing anything wrong.  Once she is better then you can try to get back on track.  I have found that despite a baby/toddler having STTN previously doesn't mean that he/she will continue to do so EVERY SINGLE NIGHT, kwim?

Have you tried extending the short naps?  I agree with Jen about the bad naps = bad nights, at least in ds' case. 

[lilflav]

She is back to napping normal now,  sometimes she needs a little pat to resettle.  Usually she has a ~1hr15min nap & a 30 min nap, I don't have to wake from either. This week ( I guess because of the sickness) she is making it to 1hr30 min, and on mon her 2nd nap was 1hr.  Her bad nights/ews def. lead to bad naps, and there is no extending.  She just pops up wide-eyed & ready whether she is in the car, pd, patted, rocked, etc. 

I know someone will probably ask what her schedule is like, so this is what I am working with-
 
7am wake
11-12:15 nap (been pushing later for the 2-1 switch)
3:45/4:15-4:15/4:45 nap
7:30/8 asleep

This week I  let her sleep in later in the am & her a times have shortened to about 3 hrs plus the longer naps & bedtime between 7:30 & 8 to catch up on sleep & beat the cold.  Today she woke at 7:20 (~10hr40min total night sleep total) & first A time was 3hr45 min, so we are getting back to normal.

So when a lo has nws after sttn, do you go back to wi/wo & gw (supposing you have given meds, h2o, & nothing else is wrong)?  I just hate that she has spent so much time crying over the past few months.  I know they say that st'ing is harder on us then them, but I don't believe it for a second!  I almost feel like it's unfair when she is ot & iis having a hard time settling herself.

[Mimi 2]

Deciding on WI/WO or GW depends on what you and dd is comfortable with.  Some like the WI/WO while other like GW.  Personally I have success with WI/WO with both dd and ds.  I agree with you about teaching independent sleep being hard both on us and on them.  IMHO, do what YOU are comfortable with and teaching her will not be so stressful.  Each baby response differently.  Since discovering BW and this site I learned that when I read my children's cues correctly, I'm halfway there. 

Looking at your day, I see that you are in the 2-1 transition.  The transition can bring a lot of issues to some los, causing NWs, EWs and erratic naps.  I think it's good that you let her sleep in a long as she wants in the morning, then have the first nap about 4-4.5 hrs later.  Then if you have time in the afternoon, try to get a catnap in.  With dd, I did the same thing until I was able to pushed the nap to 12pm and then just give an early bedtime until she can last to the regular bedtime (7pm). 

Good luck.

[deb]

AP isn't a bad thing, really it's not. There are times when it's totally called for! Kids who are sick, or in pain (teething, for example, or reflux) can benefit from it a lot!

When you do start up your sleep training again after a stretch of AP, be sure to take it slowly and gently, for both your sakes!  If you don't feel right about letting her cry, then by all means experiment and see if there's something else you can do, if you can come up with a compromise, so to speak.

Oh, and Elizabeth Pantley's book The No-Cry Sleep Solution sounds like it might be a perfect read for you right now! It helped us get thru pacifier weaning without losing our minds!

[lilflav]

Hello, thanks all for answering.  I feel a little better about the situation.  But in all honesty, I really don't feel comfortable with anything.  I can't go back to ap'ing because she was awake every 2 hours & we were both miserable.  I've started doing it this way & want to be consistent & not change methods & confuse her.  Although, now that I have given in a little because of her sickness she will probably fight even harder when I go back to normal.

Yesterday she had a 2 hr nap :O  ! I did need to pu/pd for 8 min @ the hr mark though. But that was probably the longest nap in almost a year.  Maybe that means she is getting closer to the 2-1 switch?  Hopefully trying to push out the am nap will help w/ her nws.  Unfortunately she refused her second nap & had a long pm a time.  She woke at 3, & 3:40 then was up for 2 hrs & had a total of 10 hrs sleep.  She did lay down a lot & tried to fall asleep, but couldn't get there.   She was coughing a lot, so I didn't let her cry much. Also, I feel bad making her cry when she is ot & is having a hard time settling herself. 

I am confused about something.  Her total required sleep is about 13 hrs, if she has a 2 hr nap then she will need an 11 hr night to meet her requirement.  So before I get to the 5 hr A time mark, how can I put her down early w/out going over on total sleep requirement & not expect her to wake very early?  Say her wakeup is 7, nap 11:30-1:30, she refuses a second nap, then I should put her down at ~6 right?  Why wouldn't she wake at 5 am?  Then wouldn't we have to start her day then? And wouldn't that totally mess up her days & nights?  Like wouldn't her bedtime get earlier & earlier? 

[Mimi 2]

I am confused about something.  Her total required sleep is about 13 hrs, if she has a 2 hr nap then she will need an 11 hr night to meet her requirement.  So before I get to the 5 hr A time mark, how can I put her down early w/out going over on total sleep requirement & not expect her to wake very early?  Say her wakeup is 7, nap 11:30-1:30, she refuses a second nap, then I should put her down at ~6 right?  Why wouldn't she wake at 5 am?  Then wouldn't we have to start her day then? And wouldn't that totally mess up her days & nights?  Like wouldn't her bedtime get earlier & earlier? 

This part was tricky for us.  With dd (she's my good sleeper) I found that if I let her have some quiet time in her dark room (with me as well) or just go for a drive in the late afternoon (sometimes she could take a 5 min nap) then I could stretch the A times a little.  With ds, I had a harder time getting him to transition.  But he's a good boy as he is easily distracted by his sister and didn't really have NWs as a result of the long A time.  He's NOT the type to sleep in if he has an early bedtime.  Infact he's more lilkely to give me 11.5-12 hrs when he has a 7hr A time before bed (b/c of short nap) .  As much as I like the 12 hrs nights, he can't do 7 hrs consistently.  So in the meantime, I have to sorta wait until he can last the 7hrs everyday. 

Keep in mind that some babies are very good sleepers and some will require more help from us.  Either way, this does not determine how bad or good a parent you are.  YOU are a great parent no matter how well she sleeps. 

FWIW, a friend of mine has a 3yo boy who has never slept longer than 5hrs.  She has tried everything short of giving him sleeping pills but he won't sleep longer than 5hrs at a stretch.  But through it all, she is still a great parent.

[lilflav]

Thanks very much for the support, it's greatly appreciated & helpful!  I will try giving her a walk/drive in the car next time she doesn't have a second nap, I have a feeling we are going to have many days of those ahead.  Although today so far has been drastically different from yesterday.  She only slept for 20 min. for her am nap.  She almost went back down, but just couldn't go into a deep sleep.  I am going to the 2-1 transition thread now to chat there about my adventures in nap time! 

[lilflav]

Hello, I'm back again.  Last night we had a horrible night!  She woke at 11:?? & didn't go back to sleep for almost 2 hrs!  She tried to lay down and sleep several times, but couldn't.  I gave water, teething gel, & her diaper was not poopy.  She was crying hard at times too.  Finally after getting her to lay still for a while, when she stood up I just couldn't let her cry anymore & I took her out and nursed her.  I put her back, she got up once I took her out again, put her back & she fell to sleep on her own. 

This is my dilemma- I feel like if she's having a hard time falling asleep it's not fair to leave her to cry (sick or not). I just feel guilty while it's happening and that's why I end up taking her out.  We were doing so well for a while, but now we are back to square one & I don't know if she is just holding out longer now or what.  When she sleeps at my dads house she sleep through the night.  This leaves me feeling very frustrated & manipulated.  Also the neighbors are starting to complain about the crying.  They were understanding at the beginning, but this has been going on for a while now.

I can't go back to ap'ing like before.  She was up every 2 hours, sometimes more.  I was miserable & depressed.  I know that her bad sleeping habits don't make me a bad parent, but the lack of sleep that I get does.  It's not good for her to be around someone who can barely get out of bed in the morning, smile at her , play enough with her, and is just depressed all the time.  The two weeks that she was sleeping until 5-6 am I was feeling happier & able to play more.  I have read no cry sleep solution.  There is not much that can help me, we have a daily routine, sleep routines, I believe her crib is comfy (I even changed mattresses), she has a lovey, and there really is nothing to gw from as she falls asleep on her own.  I've already missed so much of her first year & don't want to miss her second year because I am too tired to function & enjoy her.  And I know she is ready to sttn, because I hear that often.  She sttn from 8wks-4months, I had her trained & she sttn from ~10-11 months (I tried taking away the paci & that is when this started), & she does it at my dads house.  I am at a loss about what to do.

[deb]

I did have one other thought: this was about the age when Josie's eyeteeth (canines) started coming in, and they hurt her like CRAZY!!! She would wake screaming around 1-2AM (that's when the pain meds wore off), and by the time she'd gotten to 17-18 months she had learned to sob the word "Orajel" through the crying.  They came in one at a time over a period of 2 months, maybe a bit more, and DH and I would give her pain meds around bedtime and just have the next dose ready to go when she woke crying so she didn't have to wait for us to fumble with the dyringe; we kept a filled syringe of Motrin and a tube of Orajel on her dresser where we could find it even half-asleep.

[lilflav]

I have considered teething.  She just got in  her top two teeth, so that only 4 total.  Who knows what's going on in there.  I know teeth can hurt on & off long before they start to show visable signs. Maybe I'll try some motrin tonight before bed. 

That's too much that she was saying it in the night.  I wish she could tell me what was bothering her.