need to sleep train my 18mo old...I started some really bad habits:( need help

[Nicole-Momtomegan]

Erika has always been harder than my first dd and to be honest i've always struggled with being as strict with sleep training since I was such a nazi about it with number 1...I think I ran out of energy:)
Anyway....she sleeps through the night, has since about 4-6mo's....every few weeeks we get a wakeup for something random but generally not  aproblem.
at 10mos old she went to one nap and so i've spent the last 8mo's jumping around constantly tweaking what I could do to get this kid a decent nap. she is so over tired that she will only nap for 1hr 15min. if I can get a 10min catnap out of her then I usually get a longer nap...anyway....thats a constant issue for the past 8mo's and i'm hoping SOME day she can actually do ONE decent nap on her own!
Well...in the last 8mo's of this crap, I got tired, discouraged and lazy  and started giving her a bottle for naps in her crib. Then the last 3mo's or so I gave it to her at bedtime.....I swore I WOULD NEVER DO THIS...but I did....I can't even remember why now?
I got her down to water at bedtime (she will not take a pacifier but LOVES to suck and LOVES LOVES LOVES her bottle!) but i think she is getting her 2yr molars b/c she has been  a total pill lately. Anyway...it all came to a head tonight when I acccidentally woke her up at midnight and she started SCREAMING and tantruming in her bed...I couldn't calm her down..so of course I got her a bottle. My husband sat me down for the "chat" and we both know (i've known for a while) that we need to get this under control. Even after her bottle tonight she started to scream again so ithought I'd try WI/WO.....I only had to do it about 6x....the last time she passed me her empty bottle and asked "Buh buh?" and I said "no no, we're not going to have any more bottle, you have a good sleep, mommy loves you see you in the morning" and she was actually quiet and went to sleep. NOW..i'm not kidding myself I know tomorrow will be  a nightmare for naps and bedtime.
I think I can handle bedtime...it's the naps I don't know what to do...do I still give her a bottle? she is in this ridiculous overtired cycle from the short one nap and I'm not sure what to do:(.... The bottle usually knocks her out at nap time but i'm afraid she just won't go to sleep without it...she tends to just TALK for hours at naptime if she's overtired and doesn't fall asleep on her bottle.

Oh...she's crying again...sigh...
anyway...is WI/WO my best option? i'm assuming staying in her room and doing Put down is not a good idea at this age..any thoughts?
thanks!!
Nicole

[anna*]

(((hugs))) It does sound like WIWO is the way to go. I don't know about your LO, but if I'm in the room with mine at bedtime, he just wants to chat and play and never settles. What's her routine like, could you do an earlier nap and early bed for a couple of days to see if that helps her to catch up?

[charmie]

{{{{HUGS}}}} Nicole.  I hate 1hr 15min naps   

TBH the 1st thing I would do is to go cold turkey on the bottle.  If you give it to her for nap but not at bedtime you will only confuse her and further drag the process.  You need to start a new regime.  New nap and bedtime routine and stick to it.  I am also thinking that the bottle in the cot will put her to sleep but won't solve the 1hr 15min naps.

PU/PD is not recommended for this age unless you want to break your back.  I would say WI/WO like Anna suggested.

The other thing I'm thinking is to stick to a set routine too.  With strict timings for a while until she settles into it, and then you can be more flexible again.  What sort of routine is she doing right now?  Do early bedtimes work well for her?

What do you think Nic?


xxx
charm

[Nicole-Momtomegan]

Oh, I have tried EVERYTHING under the sun to get her to sleep longer than 1hr 15min and the ONLY thing that works is the 15min catnap but she has almost grown out of that now too:) BUT still isn't doing a long nap on her own.
the early bedtime will work the odd time but lately no.  When she was younger, it worked really well.
2 days ago I put her to bed at 6pm b/c her nap was from 12-1:30pm and she was in there til 8pm before falling asleep:( I'm not kidding when I say i've tried everything> i've tried sticking to set times for over 2wks too Charm and that didn't do anything:(
Her routine is like this:
7:15 wakeup
breakfast etc.
11:30-12:00 down for nap
Up by 1-1:30 (1hr 15min ....lately i've gotten 1hr 25min a few times)
6-6:30pm bed time. how long it takes her to go to sleep is hit and miss.
If I prolong nap time til 12:30-1pm she still only sleeps 1hr 15min so sometimes I think that might be better b/c atleast she wouldn't wake until 2ish but still. she just gets so overtired that I have to get her to take a catnap for 2 days to get a couple of days of good naps out of her. Recently though she won't do a catnap in her bed anymore, so I've had to take her in the car....it truely sucks.
I don't get WHY she can't just do one 2hr nap. we've been at this crap for over 8mos now....sigh....

anyway, Charm I will not give her bottles anymore...i'm just going to do wi/wo and see what happens........

[charmie]

Nicole this is all part of the switch.  I have been there too and I really feel for you.  It is really frustrating!!!  I think at this age she must be ready for 1 nap especially since she is refusing the catnap.  I had the 1hr 30min nap for a while too, and it lengthened only when I started doing the nap later.  Do you think she could handle the nap at 1?  Are you sure she's OT, becasue 1hr 15min nap could be either OT or UT.  I would also stick to normal bedtime as much as possible at this point.  The earliest i would do is 30mins earlier than usual.

You're due a break soon hun    Have you pm'd natasha?  She has some good tips too.  And we have a 2-1 nap switch support group on TS too.  I'm sure you'd find some help there too.


xxx
charm

[Nicole-Momtomegan]

thanks Charm. Funny...but I was actually thinking too that maybe I need to wait til she's really tired....thing is she IS tired by 5hrs a time. she woke at 7:15am this mornign and I just put her down at 12:10pm , she FREAKED out not having her bottle but I only had to do wi/wo about 3 times and now she's totally quiet AT 12:25pm so I think she IS tired but maybe I can push it back further?
i'll see how today goes and maybe try it:) thanks!!

[charmie]

No problem.  Let us know how it goes 

I'm glad WI/WO is working for you.  She will get it soon



xxx
charm

[*Natasha*]

Hey Nicole HUGS first of all we all do what we have to especially when you have another child to look after.
So i TOTALLY agree with Charmie on the bottle throw them away that way you won't be tempted to give her one.
Ok so the 1hr 15min nap could be OT or UT but to me it sounds more like UT at 18months they should be able to handle 5hrs awake time before nap. Perhaps the bottle like a paci has become a prop and at 1hr 15mins she is coming out of a sleep cycle and she can't manage to fall back asleep without it.
How did today go?

[Nicole-Momtomegan]

Yeah...well she LOVES her bottles so I'm going to wean her slowly but her bottles will be 1hr before nap or bedtime so that there is no longer an association.
I put her down for her nap today without it and she was mad but only did wi/wo 3 times and she was fast asleep:)
she slept about 1hr 45min:) so that was great. I'm kinda thinking she might need more A time too.
If she wakes at 7:15am after a full nights sleep, sometimes even if I do keep her up til 12:15pm she only sleeps 1hr 15min...do you think I should try 5.5hr? or 6? what are you guys at right now?
can you show me your ROUTINES??? thanks!!

[*Natasha*]

If you think she needs that sort of awake time then give it a go 1hr 45mins is a great nap well done 

At the moment we do:

7.15/30am - Wake
12.15pm (give or take 15mins) - Nap 2-2.5hrs
7/7.15pm - Bedtime

[* Paula *]

Huge hugs Nicole.  Sorry you are having a rough time.

I agree with everyone, might be worth trying to extend her A time and see how she does.

We on the other hand have had 3 days of nap refusal at nursery  but thankfully she has done about 13.5 hours at night.  I am sooo not ready to drop that nap yet.

*waving* hi Natasha 

[Nicole-Momtomegan]

I put her to bed at 7pm last night and only had to do wi/wo once:)
she was up at 6:30am though lol....

[* Paula *]

Still not a bad night though. 

Keep us posted 

[anna*]

That's a great night!!! We don't move naps around even if Stan wakes early, so he can sometimes end up doing 6 hours A time and usually (touch wood) it works out OK. Here's our current routine

6.30-7: awake
12.30: nap, average 2 hours
7-7.30: bed, depending on length of nap

[*Natasha*]

That is great Nicole how did the nap go today?