1hr 15min naps? whats this about

[gemma2313]

Hi,

Just a quick one. my 7 mnth angel bub usually naps really well - rare that he only naps for 45min (usually 1h5m or 2h15m) twice a day. Just recently he has started napping for 1h 15min... how does this happen with the 45min cycles?
does it mean he is waking during his second cycle? if so how do i stop him?

We've had a cold the last 3 days but he actually started this about 2 days before. Just one nap, but now its both his AM & PM naps? I'd like to try and stop it before it becomes to much of a habit..... if i can.. or before it gets worse (ie OT or regualr 45min naps!)

He's napping now and I'm going to go in at about the 1h 5min and watch what happens.. but would appreciate any suggestions..

[~Alexa~]

Have you tried tweaking his As to extend the naps?

If you want, you can post your routine so we can take a look and help you out!

Hugs,
Alexa

[gemma2313]

We've been having A time issues for a while.. he started waking during the night (had postings in nightwakings) so i followed a series of nap changes ie dropped catnap, then dropped df, and we moved to his own room.. etc etc.. and nights have "generally" been good since.. but its just the naps that have now changed. Even during the "changes" he still napped reasonably well most days. (At least  1x good 1h30m nap, often 2 even rarely a 2hr nap) but now he's started doing only 1hr15m ?? I just don't understand why?

routine is aprox.. this was yesterday, today he was about 15mins earlier than yest.

EW - usually between 4 and 5.30 I give bf (I think this is AP left from removing df... it doesnt bother me too much atm as he goes back to sleep easy. Yest he woke at 4.35, back to sleep by 4.50

E - Wake - 7 am BF (small feed after EW feed) ; solids at 8 (usually only 1 tble spn sometimes more - yest was only little today was more)
S - 9.30 - 10.45 (?)

E - BF 11; solids at 12 (big feed - about 100g vegies AND 100g fruit or custard or yoghurt etc)
S - 1.45 - 3 (?)

E - BF at 3.15 (small feed); then finger food snack - cucumber stick..  just started this... ; solids at 5 (100g meal (meat & veg / meat & pasta etc AND 100g fruit)

5.30 Bath
6 BF
6.20 Bed

I put him to bed a bit earlier yest due to his cold and he didnt eat as well during dinner.

He is a big boy, prob about 9kg now & 75cm long (7mtnhs) .. has the tall genes I think....

btw he woke from his AM at 45min mark today.. and will NOT go back down. I put him down for Pm nap 15mins earlier..hopefully it will be longer....

It has also been taking about 10-15mins for him to settle the last few days I have been starting the process about 10mins before I want him to be asleep....

[gemma2313]

Today we've had two rotten naps. a 45min this morning and a 1hr15min this afternoon. At 7 mtnhs I'm sure thats not enough sleep between 7am and 7pm....

I went in at 1hr 5min and watched him. at dead on 1hr 15min he coughed, rolled over and looked up at me with a smile. Instantly awake. There was no "jolt" so to speak. (He used to sleep for 1 hr 30mins so whats changed? I know this probably sounds silly but I honestly do sooo much work in those precious minutes that i need them for as long as i can and really don't want him to get into a 45min cycle.)

I then proceeded to drive myself crazy by trying for another 45min to put him down - with no success. I just can't seem to get pupd to work with him lately. I tried to give him a catnap this afternoon but that also hasnt worked out. I'm sure he's OT now.

I thought we had "independant sleep" down pat a few weeks back. For 3 weeks (at least), we had stopped the cuddle and literally took him to his room, shut blinds, checked his nappy, gave him dummy & blanket and then kiss him and put in his cot. I would roll him on his side, I held a hand on his ribs for at most 30secs then leave and he would be asleep. This would be the case every nap & bedtime. I know the dummy was a prop but it didnt seem to bother him when it wasnt there during the night so we let it be.

Since he got his cold a few days ago, he just wont go to sleep like that anymore. First he couldn't suck his dummy and then as i was sick too my dh helped me settled him a few times and i think he was cuddling (while pacing room). Now the lo wants to be held & rocked, fights when rolled to his side, wont take his dummy and wont go to sleep til exhausted from fighting... I'm at a loss... can AP set in after like 3 days???

I know he isnt fully recovered yet (neither am i) so yest & today I have cuddled for a bit longer before putting in his cot. I have "tried" what i thought was pupd except that lo isnt really crying.

This is what i do: I hold him, give him blanket, then put him in his cot. As I roll him to his side he arches his back and shouts out, I *try* to keep him on his side but he pushes back so I stop. he then lays on his back and smiles at me. So I've tried kissing him and leaving (as we did before) and he shouts as soon as I start to shut the doors (old safe cot). I walk out of room (or go out of sight) and he just "shouts", doesn't cry. After a while of shouting (have varied this, at first i went back straight away, then a minute to see if he would quieten down himself, then a few minutes.. it never gets to a "cry"), I will go back to him and try to roll him on his side. He fights, manta crys, so I try Pu. He is silent AS SOON AS i go to pick him up, infact arms are ready to be picked up. I do anyway, hold him for a minute (i try not to look at him) even though I know he is just looking up at me silently and smiling, so I put him down... we repeat this over and over... It has been more or less without the dummy the last day as he can't suck it still (snotty nose!  )  Eventually he will get frustrated and almost pass out the second i pick him up.

I think that I've been successful with this only because it has been the right A time ... exactly 2hr 45mins or 3hrs and he is tired... but once he's had a nap whether it be 45mins or 1hr 15mins and woken early, he isnt as tired and wont sleep - same with catnap... Today he woke just after 2.. so knowing he couldnt make it to 7 (or even 6) i tired pupd until nearly 3 (with no luck) and then tried to give him a catnap at 4.15... tried until a few minutes ago (5) with no luck...

He is now definately OT but I guess he's up til bedtime...

Am getting frustrated. It sucks that you feel like you have things sorted and then they suddenly aren't anymore! I need his naps. dh & i have our own buisness and I have work whether i want it or not. I don't want to work too much when lo's awake, if i can help it, as i want to "play" with him.. so really want to get his naps back to normal again.

any help would be appreciated! happy to answer questions.. sorry this is long...

[emily08]

Wow I could pretty much write similar things about my LO! We are in the same boat so big hugs from me to you as I know what you are going through! I hope someone out there can guide us!

[~Alexa~]

Hi hun!! There are so many things going on with your lo right now!

1.  He is sick! If he is not feeling well yet, just as you say, then he will get tired earlier so he won't be able to handle his usual A, and that may cause the short naps.  Also, when he tries to transition through sleep cycles he goes into light sleep, so if he has a stuffy nose, then he will not be able to get through sleep cycles by himself.  Does this make sense?

2.  It sounds like he is going through some Separation Anxiety issues.  He is getting upset when he doesn't see you, so that also affects sleep. 

3.  Dummy....It wasn't a problem b/c he was able to suckle it, but now that he has a stuffy nose, he is not able to go to sleep b/c he can't use the dummy.   

About 1 hr 15 min naps...I saw your routine and I think that your lo is waking up b/c of hunger from those naps.  He wakes up EXACTLY after 4 hrs from his last bottle.  So I was thinking that WHEN your lo is BETTER, we can try pushing his feeding schedule 30 min later, and add 15 min to those A times to see if we can get 1.5 hr naps again.  What do you think?

(((BIG HUGS))) I know how frustrated you must feel! But when babies are feeling bad, they need lots of mummy and daddy time.  Also, once they are well, they need a couple of days for getting back on track!   I'll hold your hand until we get things right!

[gemma2313]

Hiya,

Sorry been offline for a few days, my dh had lo for a few days as i had another committment all day yest and this morning .... so I'm really hoping we aren't too offtrack nap wise..
Lo & I were also out and about at lunch today and have only just returned so I didnt really have to try to put him down this arvo as he crashed in the car..just transferred to his cot. Unfortunately he's only slept for 45mins.. but oh well..

Alexa, I agree with you completely . I think that it's definatey his "stuffy" nose stuffing us up! I will try to be patience as he is still quiet snuffily and it looks like we are at least a few days off being "better". I might need to shorten his A like you mentioned... I'll try that tomorrow if he's still sick.. I agree that he is more tired than usual as last night he slept from 6.30pm til 5.45am !!!! without a peep... and then went back to sleep and I had to wake him at 7.30am... (I hadn't bothered setting an alarm as I figured he'd wake me 6.30/7ish anyway!!)..but he didnt want to wake up!

I thought that the separation anxiety thing was happening, i think that that was our "original" night issues.. (when i first found this site!!).. he doest seem to have issues during the day. dh has actually put him to sleep (bedtime) the last two nights to give me a break... dh tells me that he hasnt been cuddling to sleep... we'll see tonight i guess.. )

I also wondered about the dummy... might be time to get rid of it soon maybe?

I never thought about hunger being his a reason for waking from his naps. He just seems to eat so much in his lunch & dinner meals that i didnt think he could be hungry and he doesn't cry when he wakes... In saying that we have discovered (yest & today) because i have been away for a few feeds I had ebm for lo but he wouldnt take the bottle.. (its only been about a mnth since he's had a bottle) so dh put bm in his sippy cup and he still refused..  i wonder if maybe its not necessarily "hunger" but more "suckling" on me that he wakes for?!

I will try to shorten his A time a little tomorrow to give him a bit more rest (hopefully!).. and try the catnap again for a few days if need be... we'll see what it does to our nights. I might also use this stuffy nose buisness to rid us of the dummy, as he cant use it atm anyway, what do you reckon?

[~Alexa~]

Hi luv!! Ok, so about the dummy, is your lo able to replug it? (when he is not sick) I have no real experience with paci, my lo never used one! To me, it sounds like a prop b/c now that he can't suckle, he is having sleep issues, but also, he is sick and he is not feeling well, so it is totally normal to have sleep disturbance when babies are ill.    So what to do? I'm not sure,  I think that if you want to get rid of the paci, I would wait until your lo is ok! He is not feeling well now, so I wouldn't add more stress and discomfort to his nights. IYKWIM? But again, I have no real experience with pacis, so may be it would be a good idea to start a post on the http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=28.0 board.  You will get great advice over there.

So for the next couple of days, try to follow your lo's tired signs.  He may get tired earlie b/c of being sick!

How did your night go? How is your lo doing now? 

[gemma2313]

Yest arvo nap was only 45mins so he was up at 3pm (even though we had a late start to the day and a good AM nap)... he didnt end up having a catnap (time got away from us/me!) and I ended up putting him to bed at 6.30 with no protest at all..

He woke at 11pm and took about 20mins to settle, not sure what the issue was but he did go back down without too much effort (didnt need to pu, just sat next to him with a hand on his head for a bit) he then slept til 5.45. I fed him and he crashed again until 7.30...

today I put him down for am nap at 9.30/9.45 and he only slept for 45mins. Its hard to read his sleep cues in the morning as he always seems to be tired much earlier than he "should" be... ie from about 8.30 he starts being a bit grumpy. I sort of figure he's not a morning person, his dad isnt so it makes sense.

His pm nap started at 1.05, so he only had 2.5 / 2.75 A time there but he is still sick so i let him go early like you suggested. Hopefully he'll sleep well.

While playing this morning we discovered a third tooth! one of his top ones must have come through in the last few days as its nearly all the way through the gums! I wonder if that has contributed to the short naps.. poor thing teeth & a cold!! It doesnt seem to be too sensitive as he let me touch it, but I've been giving him panadol for his cold so thats probably been helping any teething pain anyway!

I've let him keep the dummy. He doesnt seem to replug, but does try sometimes and ends up sucking the edge of it instead. He has only ever used it in his cot so it doesnt really bother me too much. and like you said, it might be a bit much taking it now when he's still not feeling well. I don't think he wakes when its not there. (most mornings its down the other end of the cot from him - like he's thrown it!) and 9/10 he drops the dummy out as he starts to go off to sleep but it will be something i'll investigate later. I think he associates it as part of the wind down ritual more than anything. He knows that when he has it, it means bed.

well better go and enjoy what precious little i have left of this nap (you know with great things like washing, dishes, dinner & work!) ...

I will try to keep reading his cues for next few days until he's better and then *hopefully* we can sort out this nap buisness if it doesnt sort itself!

[~Alexa~]

Hi there!! Poor Benjamin! Teething and a cold!  That may be causing the nap disruption and the NW! Let's hope he feels better in a few days, and then we can add A time so he gets 2 long naps a day and no catnap!

Let me know how things go
Alexa

[gemma2313]

well, we only ended up having one day with a catnap.. thats the only catnap he's had in about 2 weeks so i think we are over them.. (i actually enjoyed that nap it let me get dinner ready but oh well!!)

anyway, yest was GREAT! I followed his cues (or thought I did) and even though he woke at 7.20, i thought he was trying to tell me he wanted to go down at 9.20 so I started wind down... he ended up "dadadada"-ing in his cot for a good 40mins!! at just after 10 i tried *again* to settle him, i pu and held him for about 20secs and he just went limp.. so i put him back down and he rolled away from me and went off to sleep... no crying no fighting nothing.. AND HE SLEPT FOR 2 WHOLE HOURS!! infact I woke him at 12!!!!

So.. I'm thinking even though i tried to put him down early - i think he's ready for 2 3/4 if not 3 hrs A time.

Even better I waited 2 3/4 hrs before his PM nap.. so started wind down just before 2.45 and he was easily asleep by 3... and slept ANOTHER 1.5hrs!!!

today the snuffling looks to be over!! whoohoo! I think we might be getting better and his tooth is flat, so nearly all the way thru (what a tuff little boy!)...

We have still had one nw at about 2/3 am put I gave him a little panadol and he went straight back to sleep so i'm wondering if thats teething.

Today, he woke at 7.15, he started yawning at 9.30 (we have a grumpy stage at about 8..30/9??) so I started wind down at 9.45 so he was asleep just before 10.. fingers crossed.

[~Alexa~]

Hi hun!! I'm so happy to hear you had a good day! I think that you just found the As your lo needs.  So keep having 2 hr 45 min in the am, and 2.75 - 3 hrs in the pm, and let's see what Benjamin does!!

Keep me posted

[gemma2313]

gee we've had a busy week or so... but Ben's still going well. We've discovered 3hrs is now the A time.. and no catnap. He has 2 1.5hr naps....

my newest issue (it nevers stops does it?) is this ew for a fed... three mornings in a row he has woken at 5.45am...i know its a habit now. He used to go back to sleep but he hasnt recently - it just means our days ends up starting early and he goes to bed OT. (which in turns results in a NW I think!)...

I'm heading over to the EW convos now...to get suggestions on how to drop that feed... I'm thinking i might just have to get dh to help and put lo down (so lo doesnt have to smell my milk!) until 7... but i'm sure thats gonna muck everything up all over again.... lo is definately an angel bub though so i dont think it will take him long to get it.

thank u for your help - and "ear" so to speak!

[~Alexa~]

Good luck, hun!! Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you!
Alexa

[mommahnatuk]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!! I could have written this post, every detail for myself. Is it teeth? Am I APing? Is the runny nose? Is it the A time? Sometimes you can never know for sure. I was reading this post as I was snuggling my lo back to sleep wondering if I had just done myself in for snuggling through every sleep cycle, and told myself to relax, she's not feeling well and we can sort things out when she's better. You saved me, well, more like saved my husband from a phone call from his crying wife with a crying baby in the background saying "I just don't know what to do anymore..." I'm sure he is greatful!!