chronicly tired baby won't nap in pm

[kimbo613]

My lo is 5.5 months now, but this has been going on for weeks I think.  He just refuses to take a third nap, catnap or otherwise.  I think we've finally figured out a good A time for him, and first two naps are usually pretty good, but our afternoons/evenings are LONG...way too long for his age.  Some days he has been awake from 1:30 or 2:00 until bedtime (sometime between 6:30 and 7:00).  When he does take a third nap, it's only if the last one was crummy, and then it's only 45 min. tops.  I have been splitting his bedtime bf (one side before bath, 2nd side after) because he was falling asleep and wouldn't take a full feed.  Can anyone help?

[~ Vik ~]

Hi kimbo613!

Could you post your lo's routine?  Like this:
E 7:00 (bf/bottle, how long/much)
A 7:00-9:00
S 9:00-11:00
etc.

Have you tried some APOP (accidental parenting on purpose)?  Sometimes the catnap can be a tricky one.  If you go for a drive, a walk, etc. could you sneak a half hour out of him?  My ds has dropped his catnap now, but probably about 50% of the time I had to do some AP to get him to take it.  Otherwise he was a bear in the evenings!

Hopefully with your routine posted others might have some ideas for you too!
Vikki

[kimbo613]

Well, here's what today was like.  We had really good naps early in the day.  I think we finally found a good A time.  EW today, but he wasn't feeling great yesterday (runny nose and sneezing) and woke briefly 4-5 times during the night.  One night feeding at 12:45...earlier than usual.  All feeds are bf today, but he does get an occasional bottle.

wake: 5:35
E: 6:00
A: 6:10
S: 8:00
E: 10:00
A: 10:12
S: 12:20
E: 2:05
A: 2:14 (tried for catnap at 4:20...quiet for a few min, then never settled and ended up crying)
E: 5:55 (split feed - 5min)
A: bath at 6:25 (tried for earlier, but family over for dinner)
E: 6:45 (2nd side - 6min...couldn't keep him awake any longer)
S: 6:55ish - made a few grunts after I put him down, but not a peep since.

Hopefully he will sleep till closer to 7:00AM.  We shall see.  He seemed much better today too with the runny nose...he was more of his boisterous self

I have tried APOP a few times, but he just doesn't go to sleep well when he's not in his crib.  He will fall asleep in the car, but usually only when he's 20-30 min past his normal A time.

[kimbo613]

Sorry, I just realized I posted my routine differently than your example.  Does it still make sense?

Today was not so good.  After sleeping all night till 6:00, we had short naps.  After wakeup he had 2hr20min A time and 1hr40min nap, then 2hr15min A time and 40min nap.  Did go down for a third nap (thankfully) after 2hr25min A time and slept for 55 min.  Then awake from 3:15 to bedtime at nearly 7:00.  Also VERY whiny today, even before his first nap.  Not sure if something else is going on.

[*Natasha*]

I would try and extend that 2nd awake time alot of babies extend their awake times as the day goes on. Just to help both my girls went to 2 naps at 5.5months and their days were:

7am - Wake up
9.30am - Sleep 1.5-2hrs
2pm - Sleep 1.5hrs
7pm - Bed

[~ Vik ~]

Hi!
I agree with pp, ds dropped his 3rd nap at about 5 months. You could definitely try stretching that 2nd A time, especially after a good am nap. On those nights that he doesn't have a 3rd nap could you push his bedtime earlier? It took ds a good couple weeks to get back to his normal bedtime after we dropped his catnap. He went to bed up to 1hr earlier depending on how the day's naps were. Would that work for you?
Good luck
Vikki 

[kimbo613]

I don't really want to push his bedtime earlier...less time with daddy in the evening, but also he wakes up sooooo early.  I would like him to be up 7AM to 7PM or something like that.  I'm worried that if he goes to bed earlier he will be up earlier, and I can't do much earlier than 6AM

[~ Vik ~]

I was worried about the same thing! I just remember one night dylan was SO miserable and we put him down at 6:30 (normal bedtime with catnap was between 7:30 and 8:00). He normally woke up around 7. I was so sure that he was going to be up super early that I went to bed at 8:30 (dh laughed at me) and he woke the next morning at 6:45! Just my experience, FWIW, but I haven't found that an early bedtime (when following ds' tired cues!) never meant a really early morning.
I do understand the time with daddy problem though. Dh doesn't get home until 6ish so we have the same issue. All I can say is that it would be temporary. Ds was back at his normal bedtime within 2 weeks. Maybe your dh could get up early and spend time in am?
But if there's no way an earlier bedtime could work for you, definitely try stretching that 2nd A time. If you do it slowly (10-15min every 3 days) that will help prevent ot. Maybe you could do a combination? Add to A time and slightly earlier bedtime?
Sorry I'm not more help, that's all I can think of! Maybe someone else will have other ideas to offer
Vikki

[kimbo613]

I think I will try both and see what happens.  I talked to DH about earlier bedtime and he's skeptical about the EW too, but says it's worth a shot.  And he is starting to work from home 1-2 days a week (company wants to save on gas), so those days he would be "home" at 5:00 instead of 6:00.  Hey, we might even enjoy dinnertime with DS in bed already

[~ Vik ~]

Good luck!! I'll be sending sleep vibes your way
Let is know how it goes!

[kimbo613]

Well, we've had kind of a rough go of it.  Ds caught a cold, then started teething, then had 6mo GS...whew.  He started having 45 min naps again no matter what I tried and still refusing the third nap, so even getting him to bed by 5:30 or 6:00 we still had a very tired little guy.  Now we have been getting back to normal after cold/teething/GS is over, but still really struggling.  He has started getting up earlier I think as a result of going to bed earlier for so long...maybe we've just reset his schedule?  Getting naps of 1hr20min to 1hr40min, but only 2hr15min awake time tops.  Would NOT go down for a third nap yesterday (awake from 2nd at 12:40) so we went for a drive and managed to get 30 min of sleep out of him.  In bed by 6:30, woke briefly at 12:00, then 4:00 to eat and slept until 6:45 (yay! much better than 5:15).  First nap seems to be going well, but the afternoons always kill us.  Wondering if I should shorten the A time before that third nap?  Maybe he's just OT by the time I get a yawn and that's why he can't settle.

[*Natasha*]

Could you post your current routine?

[~ Vik ~]

Oh no, it's always a bunch of things at once!!
A current routine would be great to see, especially if some things have changed.
I'm not sure how much help I can be with that pm nap, as I am suddently struggling with the same problem! Getting 1hr20min-2hr am naps, and lucky to get a 40min pm for the past week or so (of course while bw was down!!) but maybe we can muddle through together, and hopefully get some other ideas too!
Hugs,
Vikki

[kimbo613]

Yeah, everything all at once was rough, but it's better than one right after the other

I can post the last few days, cause we aren't exactly consistent with timing   Forgot to mention we are doing solids (barley cereal with EBM and a little fruit or veggie) too in the morning, but I never remember to write down the time.  It's usually around 45min to 1hour after first BF.  Been doing solids for about 3 weeks (?)

6/10 bedtime: 5:40
E: 4:55 (10min)
S: 5:10
6/11 wake: 6:25
E: 7:10 (only 5 min...too distracted to eat anymore)
A: 6:25-8:40 (solids somewhere around 7:45ish)
S: 8:40-10:00 (in crib at 8:35)
E: 10:10 (10 min)
A: 10:00-12:10
S: 12:10-1:40
E: 1:45 (11 min)
A: 1:40-5:35 (would have tried for a nap close to 4PM, but grandpa came over)
E: 4:55/5:25 (split feed around bath, total of 15 min eating)
(bedtime) S: 5:35-5:15 (awake around 11PM for about 20 min)

6/12
wake: 5:15 played and chatted happily in crib until 5:45
E: 5:55/6:35 (split feed around diaper change and distractions, total 15 min)
A: 5:15-7:30 (didn't try for solids today...seemed too tired)
S: 7:30-9:10
E: 9:45 (11 min)
A: 9:10-11:25
S: 11:25-12:40
E: 12:55 (13 min)
A: 12:40-4:10 (tried for nap at 3:00 but wouldn't settle, ended up going for a drive after feeding)
E: 3:45 (4oz bottle)
S: 4:10-4:40
A: 4:40-6:25
E: 5:45/6:15 (split feed around bath again, total 16 min)
(bedtime) S: 6:25-3:55 (awake briefly around 12:00)

6/13
E: 3:55 (8min)
S: 4:10-6:45
wake 6:45
E: 7:05 (10 min)
A: 6:45-8:55 (solids around 8:00)
S: 8:55-10:35
E: 10:50 (12 min)
A: 10:35-1:15
S: 1:15-1:50 (put down at 12:50, mantra cried for 25 min!)
E: 2:15 (10 min)
A: 1:50-3:50
S: 3:50-3:55 (fell asleep in car, woke when we turned the car off and ready to play)
A: 3:55-5:55
E: 5:35 (15 min)
(bedtime) S: 5:55-3:55
E: 3:55 (8min)
S: 4:10-6:25

Today was way out of wack because he would not nap at church.   He used to take a little cat nap during the service if I walked him around in the back, but apparently that doesn't work anymore.  Finally fell asleep on the way home.  Had a total of 1hr55min sleep today

Sorry for the long post.  I just have a really hard time figuring out a "general" routine.  Also, I'm finding it harder to read him now.  I usually wait for a yawn to start our nap routine (about 3-4 min long) but recently he's been falling asleep on me while I'm singing to him.  But the time I tried getting him down before a yawn was when he mantra cried for so long.  I thought he would never go to sleep.

[kimbo613]

Been having more EW...4:30 monday, 5:15 yesterday, 5:00 today.  This is even after getting short catnaps in and moving bedtime closer to 6:30/7:00 (because we got catnaps that day).  How do people get their los to wake at a consistent time?!?