Author Topic: Please help me figure out my TOUCHY 8 month old  (Read 5438 times)

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Offline momto4cs

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Please help me figure out my TOUCHY 8 month old
« on: July 02, 2009, 13:38:08 pm »
I have a very sweet, generally happy, SUPER touchy almost 8 month old that I just can't ever quite figure out.

A little background-
*we started EASY at two months and have seen much progress, but have never had a reliable schedule.  I'm sure that this is due to how I watch him like a hawk and have in the past gone mostly by his cues.  This contributes to the difficulties that we are having now because his cues are no longer very reliable.
*I do split feeds with him because it has really helped with his reflux.  The doctor suggested smaller meals as a step to try before medication and it has really helped.
*He is the youngest of four (thankfully very well behaved and not overly crazy) boys -so there is a lot going on in his environment.
*We are trying to FINALLY get rid of the catnap.
*He generally is an independent sleeper and goes down most of the times on his own with little help from me.  We did sh/pat in the beginning but never did pu/pd because with having 3 other kiddos honestly I couldn't commit to being in his room so much again so we went with w/i w/o instead.  As a very last resort our fallback AP would be bouncing on the exercise ball or possibly a nap in the car.

I really need help trying to figure out how to extend his A's and naps enough to consistently avoid a catnap.  I also would love any advice on how to evaluate his behavior the last 15-30 minutes before nap.


6/30

fed at 3:45 am

cried at 6:00 was probably awake for a bit before that

E- 6:00 1 side BF
A-diaper change, walk around with me while I get breakfast for brothers
E- 6:45 solids
A- floor time, walked outside, rubbing eyes started at 7
E- tried to offer second side at 7:45 but he was already very fussy and wouldn't nurse
A-tried w/d still crying and fussing though so I went ahead and put him in bed.  ANY IDEAS HERE - I CAN'T FIGURE OUT IF THIS IS OT OR UT.  He cried and kicked when I put him in bed at 7:50, but settle when I left the room.  He fussed on and off and finally zonked at 8:20
S- 8:20 - 9:30

A- hung out with me while I finished getting ready for the day
E-10:00 - one side BF
A- playtime on floor
E- 11:15 solids
A- playtime again
E-11:55 one  side BF
A- w/d - books, songs and offer to bed when he started bussing at 12:15
S-12:25-2:20 (unheard of 2 hour nap).  Normally this nap is 1 hr 20 min but I had stretched his A just a bit

E- 2:30 both sides in order to make it until bedtime feed
A- playtime
E-5:20 solids
A-played then pj's and books with Daddy
E-6:15
A- songs and in bed at 6:25 fussed for a few minutes (probably from the way long A after the 2 hour nap)
S-6:30

7/1
 
fed at 3

awake 5:50
E- 6:00 one side BF
A- playtime
E- 7:00 solids
A- walk
E- 8:05 one side BF
A- w/d of books and songs (snuggly while I held him) in bed at 8:15 happy
S- 8:28-9:30 liked that he wasn't crying when I put him in bed but he only took an hour nap.

E- both sides because we were heading out for some fun and won't nurse anywhere but at home
A- trip to the Children's Museum with big brothers :)
E- 11:45 solids at Museum
A- getting fussy as we wrapped up the fun
S- 12:30 -1:15 in car on the way home

A- playtime at home
E- 1:45 one side BF
A- playtime
E- 3:45 one side BF
A- tried to do a nap here at 2 hour 30 min of A time in order to back it till bedtime but he CRIED and CRIED and I couldn't get him to settle at all. Finally took him out of bed and he slept in the car (after fussing) on the way to my older sons karate class.
S- 4:50 - 5:10
E- 5:30 solids
A- brothers classes and then drive home
E- 7:00
A - w/d  books, songs and played on his floor until he looked sleepy.  He had been going down at this time when we always did a catnap, but with trying to get rid of the cat anp he has been going to bed between 6:00 and 6:45 depending on when his 2nd nap ended.
S- in bed at 7:45 rubbing eyes  asleep at 8:00 after a little fussing.

But the night was crazy - he woke at 12:00 crying (totally unusual) and wouldn't resettle so I finally nursed him.  Normally I can just pop him back into bed and he is fine but he cried when I put him down and I had to pat him for a few minutes.  Then he woke up chatty at around 4:15 and even after feeding, patting, doing w/i w/o he never resettled.  I even tried APOP and bounced him on the exercise ball for a few minutes but as soon as I put him in bed he screamed.  Finally gave up at 6:10 and got him up.  Was this because of the late catnap?

I could really use help evaluating what the crying is before going down for the first nap  and how to stretch A times past eye rubbing and fussing.  Any ideas on how to push his day a bit later?  I don't mind getting up at 6, but having to put him in bed at 6 pm is really rough with having 3 older boys that would actually like to have some summer fun!

THANKS for your help!
Christine


Offline momto4cs

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Re: Please help me figure out my TOUCHY 8 month old
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2009, 18:56:43 pm »
Follow-up to my earlier post - I know that the days that I posted aren't necessarily terrible, but after 6 months of watching him like a hawk and having to stress about the timing of every nap, every day I am hoping that someone might have some tips on how to develop a schedule that might add a bit of predictibility to our lives.  It is so hard to plan appointments or get togethers with friends because I just never know when my LO is going to be doing what.  Will things calm down once I get rid of the catnap for good? 

Thanks again for any help!

Offline *Becky*

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Re: Please help me figure out my TOUCHY 8 month old
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2009, 19:07:27 pm »
oh my goodness - hugs to you. I am also mum to a touchy 8 month old and we have really similar routines. I am trying to get rid of the CN too! I can totally relate to the unpredictability of living with a touchy baby. :)
I am going to watch and see the advice you are given as we seem to be in the same position. We need to get rid of the catnap!!! Henry gets up around 6am and goes to be daround 6.30pm but cannot seem to handle more than 3 hours at the end of the day absolute max and that is after a good nap....hmmm
becky x




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Offline huntersmummyinoz

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Re: Please help me figure out my TOUCHY 8 month old
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2009, 21:32:03 pm »
marking my spot hun. am out of time tonight but will pop over tomorrow :-*



Offline becky1969

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Re: Please help me figure out my TOUCHY 8 month old
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2009, 22:05:09 pm »
Think you're offering first nap too early.  He may be rubbing eyes and fussy out of habit.  Or, since he's a touchy, those actually may be signs of overstimulation.  Since you've got THREE other kids I suspect mornings at your house are a bit hectic? Lots of people and activities going on?  That may really make him want to retreat, hence the fussing and the eye rubs.  I think what I'd try instead is taking him to a quieter room, or setting him up in his high chair to just stare out the window a bit.  That was an ultra-calming activity for my touchy guy.

Your best naps happened after about 3 hours A time, which is what we also expect at this age.  So, I think if you can push past the fussies a bit and ignore the eye rubbing you can get him on a  3hour A time routine and that will give you the stability you seek.  He's sleeping about 11.5 hours at night which is spot on!

Here's the action plan i'd suggest:

1) Stick to a 3 hour A time.  If necessary, remove to his room for quiet activity to extend

2) Try to decrease OS by removing from action if necessary.  Find quiet activities for him to do away from the rest of the family for part of his A time every morning.  Stroller rides might be a good option, but depends on his personality. For my son he wanted to observe EVERYTHING so there was never a risk of him falling asleep.  if your kid likes that, then avoid that after 2 hours A time as he'll feel more sleepy from the ride.



I think he can handle the 3 hour A time better than you think! Fussies with touchies is often more about wanting to turn away from stimulation necessarily than tiredness.  Honor those fussies by reducing stimulation and see if that helps! Or at least give him stimulation that is enjoyable for him -- like looking out a window, or exploring a basket full of different textured fabrics/rocks etc.
Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

Enjoying the toddler years!

Offline MasynSpencerElliotte

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Re: Please help me figure out my TOUCHY 8 month old
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2009, 03:59:39 am »
Christine,

Ditto to everything Becky said...right now Spencer is having trouble with sleep at daycare and I think they are reading her OS cues as tired cues, because at home she can do 4.5 - 5 hours of A time in the am and today they put her down for a nap after 2.5 hours! One thing they do there is put her in a playpen with a few toys to chill out on her own (not unsupervised, but just no one hovering) Is something like that possible for him?

hugs,
Heidi
Heidi




Offline momto4cs

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Re: Please help me figure out my TOUCHY 8 month old
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2009, 23:17:03 pm »
Becky (mom to Henry) - It does sound like we are in similar positions - same wake up and bedtime and trying to get rid of the catnap!  I think that I have discovered that after nap number 1 my son can go for 3 hrs of A and thankfully if nap #2 is a good nap, he can go 3 1/2 hours before bed.  I have been having the most issue with getting him down for nap #1.  It is so crazy because that used to be his easy nap - went down great and always slept for a good bit of time.  I'm going to go for the advice that becky1969 gave me and try to stretch his first A time - we shall see!  I hope some of the advice others have provided will benefit you , as well!  Honestly I don't know what I would do without this website!  The other moms are so incredibly helpful!  Good luck and if you ever need to just talk about your day - I am here for support! 

:),
Christine

Offline momto4cs

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Re: Please help me figure out my TOUCHY 8 month old
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2009, 23:48:47 pm »
Becky1969,
What great advice!  You are right - with 3 other boys we do have a lot going on!  Although not nearly as much as before Camden joined our family!  I had been reading his fussies as either boredom or ready for bed, but I bet that at least part of the time it is OS!  Generally I try to do the last 20-30 mins of his A time as quiet time with just me.  We have gotten into the routine of the older brothers having their tv or computer time while I take Camden to his room to nurse and read books and sing songs - that guarantees a quiet house for a little while at least :)!  For the past 10 days or so though I can't even walk into his room to start quiet time without him crying.  He's fine going up the stairs, but as soon as I walk into his room the crying begins.  I had been thinking that he was already OT, but then I started to think that maybe it was his way of telling me that he isn't ready for nap yet.  So the past couple of days I have been just walking him around the upstairs looking out the windows, looking at himself in the mirror, etc - very low key but not in his room.  He still cries a bit when we finally head into his room, but at least we have been able to stretch his 1st A time a little.  I have also wondered if he is entering a stage of wanting to be with me still instead of being by himself?  Seperation anxiety started awhile ago, but during A time it has gotten better.  Now I can at least walk out of the room for a bit without him protesting....I don't know any thoughts?

I appreciate your action plan!  Are you thinking that I should try an A time of 3 hrs before both naps?  I haven't tried that long in the morning, but doing that would be really get us closer to eliminating the catnap for good -woohoo!  I know that he can do 3 1/2 hrs before bed, which also helps!

I will also do better about honoring his fussies with a decrease in stimulation!  Thankfully he really enjoys being with his brothers, but I'm sure that a little more low key time would be a good thing!  Sometimes I feel so bad for him -  being a touchy LO in a big family can't be easy! 

THANK YOU SO MUCH for your help!

Heidi,
Thanks for passing on the idea to use a playpen.  I think that I will set ours up in our master bedroom where it is quiet and away from things.  Then I could let Camden play in his own little space while I do some mommy chores - laundry and other things that are lowkey.

I hope you can help your daycare providers figure things out!  LO's can really fool you!

Thanks again!
Christine

Offline huntersmummyinoz

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Re: Please help me figure out my TOUCHY 8 month old
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2009, 09:29:56 am »
christine, so sorry for the late reply, horrid morning sickness (well all bloody sickness really!!)

anyway, totally agree with pps in trying to stretch out that first A time. hope that helps get a nice long nap and will certainly help get rid of the catnap as he is about the right age to lose it. took me a while to realise that hunter's fussiness was needing some quiet time rather than being tired too, so looks like you've gotten some great tips there already too.

my only other thought, is are you sure his reflux is under control?? if things havent greatly improved after trying the suggested changes for a couple of weeks, it may be worth investigating this. also, although i understand why the pedi recommended small frequent feeds, the only problem with this is that he is feeding right before sleep which can actually aggravate his reflux more and thus affect his sleep. he should really be kept upright for around 30 min after a feed whenever possible, raise one end of his crib slightly, sleeping on their left side can help ease symptoms too. here's a couple of links that may be useful if you havent seen them already.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=654.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=137836.0

best wishes hun, keep us posted

kirry :-*



Offline momto4cs

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Re: Please help me figure out my TOUCHY 8 month old
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2009, 19:31:58 pm »
Kirry,
So sorry to hear about the morning sickness!  It is SO hard to keep up with a toddler when you feel icky!  I had awful all day sickness with my last two pregnancies and the only thing that seemed to take the edge off a bit were really strong mints.  Everyone is different, but if you haven't tried anything like that, it might be worth a shot.

I will check the links about reflux.  Camden seems to fall into the "happy spitter" category, but I guess that it could still be impacting his sleep.  I would guess that now there is only 10-15 minutes of upright time before I put him into bed.  Did you figure out a way to make the raising of one end of the crib work after your LO started rolling?  Thanks for mentioning the reflux - I hadn't really thought about that piece of the puzzle :).

If anyone checks this post today I could use some advice on the rest of our day. 

This morning Camden woke around 6:30 (30-40 min. later then he usually does) and I tried putting him down at 9:15 (so A time was b/w 2 hrs 40 min and 2 hrs 45 min).  I fed him at 8:40 and then we just walked around upstairs singing songs and just having some quiet time.  He started rubbing his eyes at 9:10, so we went into his room (he was already crying a bit) and I sang one last song and put him in bed.  He continued to cry after I put him down and fussy cried on and off until 9:15.  I went in once when he changed from his fussy cry to his more intense cry, but he settled on his own after I left the room.  So then he only slept until 10:15 - and wouldn't resettle.  I'm thinking that the crying and short nap means that he was OT...but i just don't know...any thoughts?

So for nap #2 he was in bed at 1:05 (A time of 2hrs 50min) and only made one short cry when i put him down.  He was asleep (without making even another sound) at 1:10.  I thought that for sure he would take a good long nap, but he was awake at 2:20 and once again i couldn't get him to resettle.   

Now we have 4 hours until bed and I'm afraid of doing a catnap because last time I gave him a catnap he was up chatting to himself at 4:15 am and after trying everything he still didn't go back to sleep.  Should i just see how long he can make it and just plan on having him to bed early...even if that is before 6?  Ugh!  He normally does an 11.5 hour night, so that might make tomorrow start before 5:30 and how then will we avoid a catnap tomorrow? 

Thanks again for any ideas!
Christine

Offline huntersmummyinoz

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Re: Please help me figure out my TOUCHY 8 month old
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2009, 20:36:19 pm »
maybe 30 mins early bedtime if he can last that long?? i'm sure others will have ideas but when my LO ended up with a long A time til bed i would try and stretch the A time of his normal activities, eg. take an extra long bath, longer baby massage, put pjs on slowly, read an extra story, etc, so still doing all his usual bedtime routine things but dragging them out seemed to help him last a little longer. really depends on your LO tho if this will work. also popping hunter in the sling (we would even do this occasionally at 10 mths) would help hold him out a bit too. my LO only ever did 11hrs night sleep regardless of bedtime so we would get as close to it as possible. however many LOs make up the extra nightsleep if put down early.

you said you tried putting him down at 9.15 this morning, what time did he actually fall asleep? as nap length can help determine OT (usually 30/35mins) or UT (45/50mins)



Offline momto4cs

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Re: Please help me figure out my TOUCHY 8 month old
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2009, 20:43:52 pm »
Sorry - I made a typo :).  I put him down at 9:15 and he fussy cried until 9:45 and woke at 10:15 and wouldn't resettle.

I'm hoping that he can make it until 6 tonight. My husband has him outside right now just keeping things lowkey.  Then I will give the drawn out bedtime routine a try :)

Thanks again!  how are you feeling today?

Offline momto4cs

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Re: Please help me figure out my TOUCHY 8 month old
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2009, 19:18:43 pm »
Thankfully Camden was able to make it until almost 6 for bed last night and actually he slept for 12.5 hrs (with a wake up at 4 to eat). 

Becky1969, Your advice to stretch his first A time was spot on!  Today I skipped watching the clock and just switched to quiet activities when the fussies started.  His first A time ended up being just at 3 hrs and then he napped for around 1 hr 15 min.  Not the longest nap, but he went down without crying and woke up happy - both very good things!  Then I did the same thing for nap #2 and his A time ended up being almost FOUR hours!  I put him in bed at 3 hrs 40min and he kicked a bit, but then settled himself quickly and just played in his crib until 3hrs 55min.  Maybe I should have kept him up a bit longer even?

Around 6 months he did a similar HUGE jump in A time.   It always surprises me because it seems totally out of character for a touchy LO.

Rats - he's crying after just 30 minutes...maybe I was too late, not too early.  Ugh! 

:),
Christine

Offline huntersmummyinoz

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Re: Please help me figure out my TOUCHY 8 month old
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2009, 20:40:15 pm »
hi hun, i was going to suggest he was UT for that first nap, and then got OT as he missed his sleep window in the process of fighting it - great bw, seems like you saw that already and extended his time today and he gave you a good nap in the morning.

i'd stick to around the 3 hrs for both naps (maybe an extra 15 mins or so for the second A time if he looks like he needs it) as the 4hrs looks to have been too much.

great news that he caught up on night sleep with the early bedtime ;D

kirry :-*



Offline becky1969

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Re: Please help me figure out my TOUCHY 8 month old
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2009, 14:27:16 pm »
You're getting there! You're experimenting and that's great!  I agree --- 3 hours is probably where to start.  After a few days if you want to stretch a bit more b/c naps aren't getting longer you can do that.  But a jump to 4 hours right away -- even if he *is* ready -- will almost certainly result in an OT nap b/c he hasn't done it before.

Keep up the GREAT work!
Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

Enjoying the toddler years!