I think I'm messing it all up :(

[~Lori~]

I have tried to keep to a 2.5-3 HR EASY routine for my 5.5 week old son.  But the naps are messing it all up for me, and it ends up being more of a 2HR feed schedule....I'm wondering if when my little one takes a short nap, am I reinforcing those short naps by feeding early?  Here is an example of what today has been so far and what I mean...

8:30 Eat (wake up for the day)
9:12 Start doing wind down...sleepy eyes, zoning out
9:30 Sleeping
10:05 Awake crying.  At this point I go in and put the paci in, put my hand on him firmly (do this instead of patting) and do shhhhh'ing, but after 25 minutes of this and NOT even appearing to go back to sleep, I get him up.
10:30 Quiet awake time, in my lap in the family room.
10:45---I attempted to feed again, b/c I wanted him to get back down for another nap.  He ate a decent amount. But now, my routine was more of a AESY routine.  After feeding I tried to get him back down again and he was fighting it (he fights daytime sleep so horribly) but was finally asleep by 11:25
11:25 Sleep
12:10 Awake----so now, do I just get him up for awake time (was NOT going back to sleep after this either) or feed him, even though it had only been 1hr25 since last feed/.  If I do awake time first, then once again it'll be AESY!!

I find that my days are like this constantly.  With the amount of awake time, his "window" between tired and overtired is so slim.  I've tried to add a bit more of awake time and then that usually takes at least 45 min-1 hr after that to get him to sleep...

I just feel like any attempt to keep on a 2.5-3 hr routine is getting off.

When he wakes up crying, he's not acting super hungry, so I know he's not waking up b/c of hunger.  He is swaddled, he sleeps on his side in a side positioner.

[lilalley]

All I can do is shake my head with you.   It is 2 p.m. and therefore it is time for my LO to begin the awake for 7 hour stretch. I'd like to hear what anyone suggests for you too.

[Evgenia]

Hi,

When my lo was around that age (an a bit older) we were fighting too short naps for a while. If he's up early from his nap I would wait until his scheduled feed time, rather than feeding his straigh away, this could lead to too many feeds a day and ur lo becoming a snacker - snacking constantly through out the day instead of proper feeds.

When he's up too early from his nap i would keep his A time very low key and relaxed, with my lo I mainly left her in her crib, but stayed there with her shh patting until the end of the nap. Of course if he is crying and won't say in the crib, pick him, but if he's happy to jus lay there and chill out let him.

If ur lo had all short naps through out the day u can put him down a bit early for the night to let him catch up on his sleep. With my dd we often ended up with almost non existent A time in the evenin as she was so OT by then we had to get her off to bed.

Can u post what the rest of ur day looks like?

An also at 5.5 weeks for the lo 2.5 or 3 hour easy is a lot of difference. Do post the rest of ur routine an we'll see what would work better for ur lo 2.5 or 3.

Hope this helps

[~Lori~]

I"m afraid my "routine" isn't looking like much of a routine lately b/c of how messed up things are.  It is 10pm and he is STILL not asleep, even though we've been trying to get him to sleep since 7:30.  I am on the verge of tears here!

I don't even know HOW to post a routine b/c it's been so off...

8:00 Awake and Eat (but I don't wake him up at 8 everyday...B/c he's still waking up during the night to eat, sometimes he will wake up at 5 and eat, and then will naturally wake up at 8.  But sometimes he wakes up at 6:15 to eat and goes back to sleep and I typically let him sleep till whenever, since the days have been so horrible--I don't know if NOT having a consistent wake time is part of the problem?)

8:45 start wind-down--right now this is swaddling, putting a fan on, giving him his paci (which he SOMETIMES takes if he wants it.  When he does take it, when I lay him down with it, when it comes out or he pushes it out, he is instantly awake and crying), and then I sway him side to side for awhile until his eyes are closing, than put him down.  I attempted shh patting and it was taking FOREVER each time, and seemed to aggrivate him.  I also have a 3 year old daughter, so to spend so much time shhhh patting, she is pretty much by herself all day!

9:00 HOPING he will sleep.  If he does sleep well, it is usually a 2 hr nap.  But to GET him to sleep is brutal.  Today, this was only a 30 minute nap so I will go off of that.

9:30 Awake (go in, put paci back in, put hands firmly on back.  He wasn't fussing, but his eyes were wide open and he was trying to get out of the swaddle, out from under my firm hands).

10:00 Get him out of the crib and hold him in the family room...low key awake time.

10:15 Feed him as he is drowsy...took awhile to settle him after this, but finally asleep by 10:45

10:45 Sleep

11:30 Awake (gave him paci, but firm hand on him again.  Thought he'd go back to sleep, but never did)

12:00 get him out of crib, low key awake time...sat in bouncy chair while I got lunch for my DD.

12:20  Feed him

1:00 FINALLY sleeping after awhile to get him down.

1:35 awake just got him up right away...gave him a bath to relax him)---would not go to sleep. still awake at 2:30, so:

2:30  Fed him

3:00 Asleep
5:30 Awake and feed
6:15 tried to get him down for a catnap...would not go down.  Sat with him in a dark room for awhile rocking.  did not sleep.
7:00 STILL awake (me going nuts)...fed him
7:30-asleep in my arms
8:15 Awake---get ready for bed (jammies, wash his face/neck, change diaper, last feed)-----AND HE IS STILL AWAKE AT 10 pm

I know this routine does NOT look like one at all...this is a BAD day.  There were a lot better days this week, but this is pretty much how it's been for the past 3 days.  I am in so much need of any help/suggestions.  I KNOW he is awake for far too long and getting overtired but I can't seem to get him down so it turns into this horrible no routine thing

[~Lori~]

anyone??  It's another day, but already starting off rough...waking after 35 minutes and it's still technically his night sleep.  So even though I only fed him 1 hr ago, should I feed him now?  Or get him up and just try to get him back down in a little while?

[Tweakster]

Hi Lori,

I'm not a mod but a few things jump out at me.

It seems like he needs the help with self-soothing.  I know you have another child which makes it really hard but I think you need to employ shush/pat consistently to get him on the right track.  It does take forever with some babies at the beginning.  But pays off down the line.

Where does he sleep?  How is his room set for sleeping?  Is it really dark?  You've got some white noise, the positioner and swaddle - sound good so I would keep up with that.

Also, 30 minute naps are usually OT - morning A times are generally shorter than the rest of the day so maybe start the wind down and have him down sooner to see if that improves that nap?  i.e. maybe he needs to be asleep at the 45 min mark rather than winding down. 

At 10:15 when he was drowsy...why did you feed?  Did it seem he was hungry as well?  I would have tried putting him back down for a nap at that point.  He had a short OT nap earlier and then you had him up for a bit.  Sounds like he was ready to go back down...

I agree with Evgenia about the feeding.  Maybe aim for 3 hours and just do low key activity in between naps and feeding.  If it is not his time to eat and you know this should be his S time, then work at the S rather than feeding as an option.

Also agree about him getting OT by day's end.  OT will kill the naps.  Aim for much shorter A times when the naps are really short.  You may be putting him down more for naps but if you keep the OT at bay it will make it easier - although easier is a relative term.  Going to bed at night will also be easier with decent naps.

He's still so new and sorting himself out.  Your EASY may not run exactly as EASY for a while but you are starting to put the basics in place and as he gets older it will become easier to tweak and manage.

Big hugs and let's see what the mods say.

Sometimes baths can stimulate Touchies rather than relax them.  Maybe this is his case?

[~Lori~]

thank you.

The reason I fed at 10:!5 because I was hoping that if I fed him, he'd be able to sleep a longer nap, rather than me have to wake him up in order to feed and then go through the whole process of trying to get him to sleep again after that.

The first 3 days we did baths, he went right to sleep easily and slept so long.  It's just been the pas 2 days that they haven't helped.

This morning when he got up after 35 minutes, I got him up, low key with him for about 25 minutes, than started wind down.  He fussed for a bit in my arms, but I put him down before his eyes were closing, with his paci, in his crib, swaddled with a fan and dark, how it normally is.  He fussed on and off for 15 minutes but now is sleeping.  However, in 40 minutes it'll be 3 hrs so time to feed again. the thought of waking him up to feed him is hard, but I know i need to get him on track

[Tweakster]

It is hard to think about waking them, I know.  It's going to take time for him to learn the process but he will get the hang of it.

Sometimes you might feed a bit later than exactly 3 hours if he is having a good nap.  But I often find that with DS it often looks like he is going to sleep past his feed time but alas he wakes right on cue lol.  It starts to become ingrained in them once they get the hang of the routine.  Their tummies have little clocks in there.

Glad to hear that he went down easier this time.  Looks like you put him down at a good time.  Play with the A timing a bit today and see if you can't get some longer naps out of him.

It could just be that he is in an OT cycle and that is why the baths aren't helping at this point.

[lilalley]

How do you get LO out of an OT cycle?  We are in one too.  What do you do with them when they are OT?  LO has stayed awake for 7 hours in a row many times.

[~Lori~]

yes, how to get out of an OT cycle is a great question!  Our evenings are usually a mess and he can't go down b/c he's so overtired...

[Tweakster]

By getting them as much sleep as possible in a day.  Carefully monitoring A times and putting them down sooner.  Putting them to bed earlier at night.

This is a really good FAQ to read:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=65443.msg489696#msg489696

First deep breath.  And then you just use shush/pat or AP if you have to.  Use a prop if it works.  Get those naps in.  Keep all A low low low key to the point of almost non-existent.  At their age diaper changes are taxing enough.  They don't need much stimulation to get OT & OS.  Keep it dark, quiet, conducive to sleeping.  Stick to A time in their room or your room if it's dark.

If you read the FAQ you will see that it took pp 5 months before son was independent sleeper.  That seems quite discouraging at first glance, but when you think about it, total independent sleeping at 5 months!!!  More like yippee!!!  It takes time.

These babes need sleep above all else and then you can worry about breaking the old habits. 

[Evgenia]

Hey girls,

All4finn has some fantastic advice   And I definitely agree with her regarding shh/pat, it does take lo a bit of time to get used to, but it is one of the best tools of teaching independent sleep.

Try different ways of shh/pating, start with the lo on ur shoulder while u r sitting with him/her and then move into the crib/cot and continue there. Or u can start by laying the lo in the cot and doin shh/pat in there. And with some lo its better to ssh/pat in ur arms and lay them down as their eyes r dropping, with a paci or lovie. Try different ways with ur lo and see what works best.

{{{Big hugs}}}

I know from experience how hard it can be. But think of it this way its easier to struggle for these first few months or weeks, than having consistent sleep problems well into toddlerhood.

[lilalley]

here we are again.  another day another missed nap.  3 hours and counting.  I guess I should be thankful I have never had more than 7 consecutive hours in a row.

[ryates71]

Hi Lori,

Big Hugs - we had a similar breakdown in nap time at 6 weeks. 

Have you tried sitting in there with him during his sleep to see if you can identify what is causing the waking?  This helped me to discover that my LO did BIG jolts in his sleep and my swaddle was no where near tight enough.  Now at 12 weeks the jolts have lessened so I am experimenting with letting his arms out.  Also I realised that DS responded more to sound so I invested in womb sounds and white noise (radio tuned to static).

More recently we've hit another development milestone (discovered his hands) and that has thrown his daytime sleep out again.  So at the moment I am in there like a shot each time he cries as I've discovered that I need to help him extend his sleep and the earlier I intervene (shh/pat) the more likely I am to succeed.

Good luck!

[Evgenia]

Big Hugs lilalley,

Hang in there it does get better with time.

Jus try to be as consistent as possible with what u do with ur lo to get her to sleep.

Did she go down after the 3 hours?