Anyone want to talk about the 2-1 transition? Thread #9

[Nauvoo]

Jo- my LO is just a few days younger than your caleb and we have had exactly the same thing happen.  She started walking and we went from 3.75 hours A time down to 3 hours but have now gone back to 3.5 hours A time and she just can't do more than that at the moment.

Does anyone have any opinions about doing a long am nap and short pm nap vs. short am nap and long pm nap??  I'm struggling to find the right thing for my LO.  We almost always get a great am nap. (now I've probably jinxed myself) For the last few days my LO has fought the pm nap even when I've tried shortening the am nap.  It didn't seem to help.

[*Jo*]

nauvoo06 - thank you, that is a great relief to hear! Caleb is sooo close to walking so perhaps its just that hes so tired from cruising around all the furniture.

as for the short/long thing, i have no idea, ive tried both and am still confused but at the moment we do 1 hour AM and 1.5 hour PM, but have only been doing this the last few days so not sure yet if we will stick

[scucci1979]

We tried the short am/long pm nap for 14 days and it did not work for us. Madi would be cranky all day, have more NWs and more EWs. I reverted back to long am/short pm nap and after a few days she was in better spirits.  I think your lo will tell you by her temperament and Nws.

HTH

I don't know what happened today but Madi had a peak in A times.  She could of easily did 4.5hrs this morning.
After her long am nap she normally handles 3.5hrs of A before her CN. Today, she decided to chat for 20min before she fell asleep. I don't understand her. One day she can only manage 4hrs, the next 4.5hours. 
 We shall see what the night brings and morning.
 

[Flightmommy]

Hi Ladies!
  Haven't been on much these days, as some of you know, I was away visiting family. Our plane ride there was an absolute nightmare...Caleb fussed, cried and screamed and wouldn't fall asleep in my arms (he's turned into such a crib baby!!), so I had to stand at the back of the plane and sway and shshhh until he fell asleep, then I sat down and he woke during descent....had the biggest screaming fit, arching his back, hitting me, his nose running all over..ughh, it was horrible. People were looking at me and shaking their heads!! I suspect his ears were bothering him, but I had given him tylenol, so hopefully it wasn't too painful. Anyways, once we got to my parent's house, he did nothing but fuss and whine constantly, no matter how well rested he was. He does not like change and typically doesn't do well in many social settings, so I knew that he was out of sorts with being at a strange house, but it was beyond what I was expecting....the only relief I had was that he actually slept through the night and napped extremely well. He even did some long 1h45-2hour naps, which he hardly ever does at home....go figure!! The one problem we had though was really EW's...only doing about 10 hours at night. And while i'd like to say it was because of the new surroundings, on the morning that we left for our trip, he woke early that day too (at home) and had a 10 hr night. I'm thinking he needs more A time, but I've just recently increased it to 3.30, so I don't want to go too fast. He really surprised me today though, his second A was 4 hours, which was out of my control as we were waiting for our luggage at the airport and then drove home.....he went down with just a bit of fussing and slept for 1h10...not the longest of naps, but at least he wasn't sooo OT that he couldn't get over the jolts, which is was usually happens with him when he's super OT. So, I guess he's ready for a bit of an increase..i'm going to try 3h40-45 for a few days and see if that doesn't tweak the EW's.
  So glad to be back and read all your posts...i missed this board!!

[Flightmommy]

Well, another super EW for us today....DS woke at 5:20am after going to bed last night at 7pm. I really don't think this is enough night sleep for him....he was clearly still very tired upon waking, and seemed to want to fall asleep again, closing his eyes and reopening, but never did resettle. I went in and tried every trick i've got, feeding, rocking, shshhing, patting etc.....nothing worked. I don't know if it's too much A time or not enough....last week, we had the best night in months... a full 12 hours and the day leading up to that night was with A times all consistently the same ( 3.30 i think). Don't know if it was just a fluke, but i think i'm going to try that today, with an A time of 3.40.
  Anyone have any thoughts on this? The EW's are getting earlier and earlier....how do you tell if it's due to OT or UT? Thanks!
 How was everyone else's night?

[scucci1979]

You poor thing! That must of been an awful flight, but you survived it.

I would try pushing his A out by 15min and see if that helps with the EWs.Do it gradually as he is getting OT because of the short sleep.  I know for most los, sleep less then 10.5hours is OT.  How long is he napping during the day?  You can either try pushing his first A out or reduce his first nap by 15min. 
Ews for us begin to be Ut and if I don't fix it fast, they turn to be OT.

[Flightmommy]

Thanks Sabrina! Since the current A times are actually a recent increase for him, do you still think I should increase it more, or stick with it for awhile...like you said, I don't want to overdo it and then cause further OT. In hindsight, i remember looking at the monitor quite often last night, and he was very fitful in his sleep, tossing and turning alot...even waking once around 9:30pm and cried out once, then went right back to sleep, but that is very unusual for him, so he must have been quite overtired unfortunately. But the EW's have been going on all week actually, not just today, so I can't see that he's been OT this whole time...he's even been napping rather well, which he doesn't do when OT.
  His day sleep varies from day to day, but in general it's somewhere around the 2h to 2.30 mark...today was like this:
5:20am wake (yuk!)
8:55-10:15am nap (3h35 A time)
2:15-3:30pm nap ( 3h55 A time, was aiming for 3.40ish, but he wasn't tired and played in his crib)
7:15bedtime (last A time of 3h45)
  I was aiming for similar A times all day, which brought us to a much later bedtime than it should have been with a 5:20 wake up....overall, an almost 14 hour day...i'm cringing just thinking of tomorrow's wake up. But I don't think i could have put him to bed any earlier, he just wasn't tired....unless he was and wasn't giving any cues, which is very possible with DS....ughh, I just don't know anymore, this 2-1 is tough business!!
  How is Madi doing with her cold?

[scucci1979]

Don't worry too much! You will get back on track. There were so many days that I thought I would never get Madi back on track.  How old is your lo again? 
Let me get this straight, you pushed his A time for three days and you didn't see any results!!  Did it get worse after your trip? How long is his am and pm nap? Madi's average day sleep before 13months was 2.5hours day.
Does he sleep longer in the am or pm? What I always did with Madi's EWs was push her A by 5min until she woke up at a decent time and let her sleep an extra 10min in the am to catch up on the missed night sleep. Also, can you try any AP to put him back to sleep in the early mornings? I was told to only to AP only for a few days!

If I was in your shoes and was aiming for a long am /short pm nap then I would push his first A again for three days and see if it improves. If it doesn't, then you can try limiting his am nap and moving his pm nap earlier. ykwim?  Sorry for all the questions. One last thing, have you tried posting on the nap boards to get more help?  I wish I could tell you the answer.

Madi is doing a lot better. Hubby and myself are now sick!
I think by the new year we are going to try one nap.  Right now she naps 2hours in the am and 20min in the pm.  She has been handling her first A time well. I think I can push her some more, but i don't want to overwhelm her.  Her nights have improved but she is still waking up around 5am and is in and out of sleep until 7am. To me, that tells me she needs to go to one nap, but I am going to give it another few more days to see if she improves. 

[annette.xx]

Hi there

my LO is 10 months and nap refusing both am and pm naps - and bedtime...

im struggling to know what times I should be aiming for naps -

at 10 months what was your A times? (especially first one) im curious to see what others are doing!

I am doing

wake 7
nap 1 - 3.5 hrs A time - 45 mins
nap 2 - 3 hrs A time - 1 1/2 to 2 hr nap
bedtime - 3.5 - 4 hrs A 7.30/8

I must add this routine isnt working out like this tho! she is crying for ages before she settles and im being held hostage in her room!

thanks

Annette.xx

[Nauvoo]

My LO is 11 months this coming sunday and we are also going through nap refusal.  It seems to come for a few days and then leave and then come back and on and on.  Right now we seem to follow one routine one day and another the next day but this is about what we aim for.

wake 7am (which she is pretty good at doing)
3.5 hours A time
nap 1.25-1.5 hours
3.5 hours A time (or a little less depending on the first nap)
1 hour nap
bed anywhere between 7 and 7:30pm.
I love it when we have days like this but I must say that recently we've been having a lot of awake time in the crib before she falls asleep which is incredibly annoying.  I'm having loads of issues trying to get the A time right.  My LO displays absolutely no tired cues in the afternoon and if she does I know she's OT.  But, I really do feel like one day she does 3.5 hours A time and the next day 4 hours A time.

[Flightmommy]

Annette...hi there! Maybe Jasmine needs more A time...I know it's hard to increase,especially when things aren't going well and they already seem OT, cause you're so afraid to aggravate things, but with us, the A time increases seem to work. Here I thought that Caleb was always a high sleep needs baby and did better with shorter A's, but we've been streaching them out and he's napping longer (fingers crossed), in fact...i'm finding that I need to extend his days and do a later bedtime now cause he can tolerate longer A times! Lately, we've been doing 3h40-45..how do you think she would do with that?
  Nauvoo06, i so know what you mean about the tired cues...we get none here either, and like you say, once you see some eye rubbing or yawning...it's over already! How is her awake time in the crib.....Caleb had been playing lots in his crib before naps and when I increased the A time, he seemed to fall asleep faster..of course, it's all about getting the magic A...if I push him too much, he'll spend lots of awake time in the crib, but it's not playing!!
  Well, we've been getting consistently 10h nights followed by 11.5, then back to 10h and then 11.5....rinse and repeat. I'm going to start writing things down, cause there may be a reason to this pattern....on the nights where he does 11.5, the previous day is long....13-13.5h..i know that's really pushing it, but it's usually unintentional, due to a late pm nap or something. But he ends up sleeping really well and doing longer nights....so it is possible that a baby can thrive on longer days?? Funny thing, he's been napping quite well these days....no short naps and gets over the 40 minute jolts no matter what A time he's had before...as a result though, maybe he's now getting too much daytime sleep and it's affecting the night length...i just don't know anymore!! It's a never ending search for balance between day and night sleep......got to run ladies, off to the pediatricians' with Caleb! Have a good day!

[mooglimoo]

Hello there,
this thread is making very interesting reading at the moment... now my LO doesn't refuse naps at all- is a champion napper in fact but has been waking at 4:30am for over 2 months now!!!
We are tweaking routine to give shorter am nap and then longer pm nap and pushing A times to 3-3hr45 but nothing is working!!
Will be follwing this thread closely as I think this must be the beginnings of 2:1...
Lorna x

[*Jo*]

well im very excited, we got our first 12 hour night in months! he usually does 10.5-11 hours but we changed things around yesterday and viola! i dropped his first nap to a 45min one and his second nap to a 2 hour one, i can hardly ever get a 2 hour nap out of him, but i had to actually wake him from this one! heres how our day went:

6.30am wake
(3 hours 15mins A time)
9.45-10.30 nap 1 (45mins)
(3 hours A time)
1.30-3.30 nap 2
(3 hours 45mins A time)
7.15 asleep and woke up at 7am this morning!

Now i know things can change easily and this was only one day but im gonna try it again today and see how we go!

[annette.xx]

thats amazing! thats the exact routine I usually aim for but my LO is nap resisting big time!!! Im in a mess today cos she wouldnt sleep at all for am nap and then finally crashed at 12.45pm ....all this after an EW as well!! oh dear so not good!

and now she is still awake at 10.30pm! she went down for bed at an earlier time and settled for the first time in weeks by herself so I felt all smug! now im regretting that smugness cos she woke 2 hrs later and stayed awake since - teddy has been thrown all around the cot!!

any ideas what I can do tomorrow to salvage this terrible situation? Do I let her lie in (if she will!!) do I allow longer naps (if she will even accept them!!) ....

oh dear its such a mess

Annette.xx

[Nauvoo]

wow annette, I wouldn't have the slightest idea how to answer any of you questions.  But if I had an Lo that never slept I'd never wake her from a nap.  But that is not a BW answer so I hope you find some solutions.
Calebsmummy, I couldn't be more jealous of your routine:)  I haven't had a 2 hour nap in ages.  Well done and I hope it sticks.