I need to stop sleeping in with my 15 month old who is very head strong!

[LearningMummy]

Hiya,
I have just started reading Tracy's books and like the approaches - but just need a plan of action and dont know which order to go in.

This is our history:
I have a little boy of 15 months who screamed for over an hour after his birth, and hasnt stopped since Ok, so not quite that bad, but basically he used to only really sleep in my arms, needed rocking, hated the car seat and basically just wanted me all the time. I did breastfeed but he wasnt overly bothered about feeding and didnt really do it for comfort. He also had reflux and Im pretty sure a bit of colic or something, anyway, I failed to get him to sleep in the cot, tried some controlled crying on and off but never followed it through - so a big mistake - so in the end he now has a bed in his room next to the cot so he cant fall out, and I sleep in there some of the night.
He has a dummy and I use this to pacify him in the day as I childmind and often try to talk to the parents and my child is crying and trying to take me off etc. as he is usually tired at collection time.
My partner was repeatedly laying him down at night while he cried, and this did work and eventually he could just do it from the doorway and he did seem to sleep better, but we went away and it stopped. My partner them got cross one night and put him in the cot and shut the door, so since then he has been in hysterics about going in his room to sleep. So Ive spent the last 2 nights building up the trust and going to bed with him, the first night it took 45 mins of cuddling him and laying down, and last night there was no crying but I had to cuddle him and stayed in there all night. He probably wakes every couple of hours and sometimes just the dummy works, othertimes he needs lots of cuddles, and if its almost wake up time, and he wakes, he can shuffle around and keep laying on me for an hour before dropping off.  He is also just getting his last teeth through, so hopefully once they are through there will be one less thing to contend with at night!
He goes to sleep in the day on a mat in the lounge with his dummy and some sleep time music which we also use at night to go to sleep and occasionally in the middle of the night if he gets really cross and wont resettle. I just rub his back, sometimes he wakes after his sleep cycle and wont go back without more back rubbing or a cuddle, othertimes he just re-settles.

So lots of accidental parenting in there

So I think I need to start by just using the dummy for sleep times, and take it out once he has dropped off. But if he wakes and wont settle without it, then for now should I just give it back and keep removing once asleep? He will happily sleep with it out of his mouth once asleep, and sometimes shuffles around and doesn't need it replaced.

Id like to keep the music as I think this helps him wind down and relax

Id like to try going from cuddling him to sleep at night, back to just laying by him and not letting him touch me (he likes to stroke and pinch my neck to sleep!) then gradually go from laying by him to sitting up in bed, then in a chair. Then hopefully by the door etc.
Last time we tried this is took about 45 mins the first night just laying him down with no cuddles and it got much easier, but the last few nights he was absolutely hysterical - I think because my partner had been doing it and then got cross - so Im trying to erase that by building trust and sleeping in there for a few nights. I also think that we overdid it by my partner putting him to bed and laying him down, but then he'd end up back in bed with us in the middle of the night so I wasnt seeing it through!

I know my worst fear is that I wont be able to stop him crying as he cried so much as a small baby that I walked on eggshells so that we didn't start off another episode - so in the middle of the night I do whatever it takes to get him back to sleep! So I need to have a plan so I feel confident in what Im doing and where Im going.

Can someone advise me on a clear plan - I know it could take months, and Id rather it take months and do it gradually than go completely cold turkey on things and have him absolutely hysterical making himself sick etc. I also want to wait for his teeth to stop coming through which I guess in a week they will be finished, so I'm happy to do a week of preparing him and taking baby steps.
So I need a dummy plan (Im already giving a special cuddly) But do I do this once we are back to being able to just lay next to him, or do I try to go cold turkey while Im still cuddling him to sleep?! Or do I just take it out his mouth once he is asleep to begin with?

How long do I need to rebuild his trust by staying in the room - until he stops resisting bed time by keep sitting up and pointing to get out of bed and go in our room? (he's only started this after my partner put him in the cot and shut the door!)

We are also possibly moving house in a few weeks time, do I crack on now or wait till after the move? Or take baby steps now?



Sorry for all the info and questions, but there are so many accidental parenting things and props that its hard to know where to start. My son also is very head strong and has his daddies red hair temper, so it often takes alot to calm him, and he gets funny if there are alot of people around etc. - I think I am a Headstrong parent, although Im trying to change my outlook, and my son is a Spirited child and also a Grumpy baby - I have to be very careful not to set him off!

[speechie]

HI and welcome to the boards you'll get loads of info here.
I can see that your situation is a bit complex, I can see why you want a good plan to help get you started.
To me, it sounds like your child doesn't use the paci as a prop, but more as a comfort item. You're not replugging him in the night- he can do it himself, right? My kid was a paci addict and needed replugging 6-8 times a night, so we weaned it at 6 mos.
If it's not bothering you, I think I'd keep the paci at night, and work on the other sleep issues.
It sounds like your LO needs you to fall asleep at this point, and is teething- right?
If you choose to do any sleep training when your LO is teething, be sure to medicate for pain, as it is not productive to train when he's hurting.

What is his schedule like now? waking, naps, bedtime?

Big hugs to you, it is possible to change your LO's sleep habits. As you say, it may take a while. But with consistency and gentle loving firmness, you'll get there again!
Have you read this link?
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0
Good luck, and FWIW, I've got a spirited child too- I know it takes a special touch and a lot of patience!

[LearningMummy]

Hi, thanks for your reply, I have also looked at the link.
Today he only had his dummy at nap time and coped without it the rest of the day and I gave him his teddy instead.
So tonight we did stories which he refused, then bath and talked about his favourite friend and how he has a bath and goes to sleep in his bed etc. then we went into his room and put his sleep music on and I tried stories which he refused so I didnt push it. He hadnt had or seen his dummy at this point. After reading a previous post, I decided to tell him a story while laying down next to him. I told him a story all about our day including his favourite visits to the park with his favourite friends that I look after, a couple of times he sat up and I thought he was about to go back to wanting to get out of bed but he didnt, he just said his friends name. Then he was pointing to his mouth and signing 'gone' and looked like he was going to get upset so I asked him if he wanted to have his dummy, and he signed please. So I gave it to him. So I continued his story in a calm voice until his eyes started to go.
I then just rubbed his back, then stopped doing this and removed his hand from his favourite place on my neck, and kept putting it on teddy. And repeated the calm voice and ending of the story if he fussed. He went to sleep without me just resting my arm over his back - I tried removing dummy but this half woke him and he looked for it, so Ive decided to leave this for a while.



The only thing is - that if I get to the point of just laying down from the doorway like we did before - thats fantastic - but he still used to wake in the night - so Im not sure if he will ever just not wake in the night even for me to say 'lay down' - maybe that comes as he gets older and I can do a reward chart etc.

His routine is up between 6am and 7am and we watch tv in bed if nearer to 6am, then we get up have breakfast and the little ones I look after come to play which he usually loves unless in a funny mood!
Snack at 9am, lunch at 11:30am, but of tv, sleep at 12:15 ish, for usually an hour and a half on a mattress in lounge with me rubbing his back to sleepy music. He may wake after 45 mins and need a little rubbing, or he may just roll over and go back. Then snack at 2:30 and dinner at 5pm, children go between 5:30 and 6pm then tv, playing, 6:45pm bath, 7:10pm stories and music in bed. Then he will wake randomly at no particular time, sometimes just need the dummy, other times he wakes really stroppy and I struggle to calm him, other times he will calm with a drink, other times he will need me to stay in bed with him for a while.

[LearningMummy]

Just an update for anyone going through similar:
Last night he woke about 4 times in total, but I didnt want to push it so I got in bed with him to settle him then went out, but stayed in with him the last time which I guess was around 3/4am as he sleeps lighter then. Then he shuffled from 5:20am and was up for the day at 5:45am! But we went into our room and put the tele on and snuggled till we got up at 7am.

Then he fell asleep in the car at 9:30am as he was up early (he doesnt usually sleep till 12 noon) and he slept for 45 mins and that was it for the day.
So an early night today by about 15 mins earlier - this time he let me sit in the chair by the bed while I rubbed his back and told him the story about our day and he cuddled his nellly istead of me.

Im going to try just sitting in the chair tonight if he wakes, but I really dont think he will accept this as he wakes grouchy and little things can make him hysterical. He also has 1 tooth that is just about to break through so I dont want to upset him right now.

Im just really happy that there is no crying, he is not touching me going to sleep, I can sit by the bed, and he doesnt come out of his room into ours unless its wake up time and tv/snuggles.

[speechie]

Hi- sounds like you are making nice progress- I like your approach of redirecting his hands to hug the teddy bear.

I encourage you to keep it up, stick to your decided upon rules- even if you are exhausted!, and gradually continue to reduce your contact at bedtime till you are happy with with it.

I know what you mean about not feeling like your LO will be able to get through the night, or wondering if your child will ever sleep through independently, and let me reassure you, he can and will with gentle, loving support and consistency from you. Right now, with the teething pain, it may be rough going, but don't give up, and it's great that he's not crying!

When my LO finally accepted a brief pat on the back, and laying him back down after a NW- it stunned me, and I felt like I had to walk on eggshells, but he eventually did get it!!

[LearningMummy]

Thanks for the encouragment, last night though I kind of back tracked a bit, as half way through the night he ended up stroking my neck again as we were both exhausted. I look after 2 other boys in the day in the week, so I knew he would be very cranky if sleep deprived, and so would I!

But back on it tonight - I think after his last tooth comes through and after we move house, Im going to have to just keep laying him down while he cries about it through the night, as we are both sleeping in his single bed, so even if I try to not let him touch me etc. we both keep rolling into each other which isnt helping!! So I need to stop sleeping in with him.

[speechie]

Ahh, yes, if you sleep in his bed, it will make it very tough to break his sleep habits. Once you are ready to tackle this head on, in your new house, and after that tooth pops through, do your best not to waiver- because if you give in after 2 hours of solid efforts, he'll just realize that he can hold out longer and harder to get you to cave in. That's why it's key to be consistent.
It's so hard when you need to be alert for work the next day. But, once his sleep is sorted out, you'll all be resting better!

[LearningMummy]

Yes I know your right - but I know that there will be tears if I try to sit by the side of the bed just patting him when he wakes in the night, so I suppose Im putting it off. Sometimes I even go back to thinking, oh well it doesn't matter if he sleeps in with us or whatever, as long as he sleeps. But I know that actually he will get quality sleep once he stops waking every couple of hours.
Im defiantly going to wait for the move and last tooth to sprout through, knowing our luck he will then probably get a cold or something. He seems to have quite a low pain threshold, so colds and teething wake him alot, probably because he is looking for comfort from me.

Anyway, I will keep on reading other posts for advice, and will report back after the move and teething - at the moment I am still able to get him to sleep sat by the bed, which I think I will stick with for now, and try to sleep in my bed as much as possible - and if I need to sleep in with him, I will go down the other end so we dont keep each other awake!

[speechie]

I know that actually he will get quality sleep once he stops waking every couple of hours

Yes! he will- it's so hard when they NW- they are OT and cranky too...

Remember that even if he does cry in frustration- he is learning a new way to fall asleep. It's a new habit, and a different way of doing things, so he will protest, but by staying nearby and helping him through it, he will still feel supported and safe. It is never easy to sleep train, but the pay off is great!
Hope that tooth pops in quick, your move is smooth, and that things go well...I do think that continuing to slowly work on it, and not letting him stroke your neck is a good idea in the meantime.
More encouragement and hugs...

[LearningMummy]

I knew it would happen - he is coming down with something, temperature and wont let me put him down today! But has gone to bed fine - poor boy!